For those who have played superlative guitars...

[koolimy]

Hi, I have a question for those of you who have played or owned superlative guitars. What set them apart from your other good guitars?

I have only played guitars that can be classified as between mediocre to good, I don't think I've ever played a guitar that was amazing. To be frank, it is kind of hard to imagine how a guitar can be so much better than a "good guitar", but I don't have any experience so I wouldn't know.

Would appreciate your experiences and thoughts!

[Glennwillow]

Hi Koolimy,

I think there are two kinds of players that can appreciate really responsive (and expensive) guitars: accomplished fingerstyle players and accomplished flat pickers. For many players the benefits of really responsive guitars may not be noticeable.

I'm not sure that I'm all that "accomplished," but I do own an Olson SJ (cedar/EIR) and a Gerald Sheppard GA Ave Maria (Italian Spruce/BRW), as well as other excellent guitars.

I just put this song up in the Show & Tell section of the forum to celebrate my wife and my 52nd anniversary today (June 6). I reference this song because I used both the Olson SJ and the Sheppard on this song.

As a finger picker, I don't like to have to pick a guitar hard to get good sound and volume out of it. So guitars like the Olson and the Sheppard give me really good sound and response with minimal effort. Also, they ring out, they sustain, longer than most other guitars and that makes for a very full sound, which I appreciate. With a light touch on the guitar I can get a great deal of control of the sound I want.

Regarding flat pickers, if you look up Carl Miner on YouTube you will find him demonstrating all kinds of fantastic and expensive guitars for The North American Guitar. Carl is such a terrific picker that he makes these terrific guitars sound fantastic. But give me a flat pick and I can't come close to doing what Carl Miner can do. So to me, a really good flat picker can bring out the nuances and advantages of a really outstanding guitar.

But a person needs to figure out whether they actually benefit from a guitar like this. Many don't. Their playing style does not seem to fit into the benefits that come from a guitar like this.

- Glenn

[cc132]

You’ll know because you never forget them.

About 10 years ago, I played an old Kalamzoo Oriole at the North Austin Guitar Center. It was $1,200 and I still kick myself for not buying it.

I recently had the same experience when I played a 000-28 Authentic in Houston. Not wanting to experience that same regret again, I ended up making two trips to Houston within a few days to buy it.

[SuperB23]

There are certain various levels of what people would consider good to great. Sitting in a shop that has 30-50 guitars in the $5000-50,000 range really helps you get a full understanding of what an acoustic guitar can be. Usually the better ones are a nice blend of playability, tone, responsiveness, collectability/brand and visual beauty. This really requires hands on, you can only go so far with youtube or sound clips.

[robey]

They sounded better. This isn’t hard.

[usb_chord]

Usually there's an involuntary reaction of some kind. A widening of the eyes, an internal shock (subtle or not) and maybe even a vocalization, anything! It's kinda like a great meal. I had a meal once at a really special restaurant in NYC. I took one bite of the complimentary bread and I could feel a reflexive goofy grin grow across my face. I knew in that moment this wasnt exactly Flemings. Great guitars are like that. You attempt the "scratch the surface" during the audition process and realize even that's a mile deep

[jim1960]

My first custom was my Bamburg baritone. The tone is what got me.
My second custom was my Circle Strings parlor. The tone is what got me ...in fact, it haunted me until I placed the order.
The third custom was my Circle Strings 00. For whatever reason, I had a hankering for a 00 because I'd never owned one. I could have gone off the shelf with one of the usual contenders but my experience with Adam Buchwald two years prior was so good that I decided to just trust what he'd build for me. He didn't disappoint.

On all those guitars, many of the details were my choices. I was able to choose the woods being used from a selection picked out for me, the nut width, string spacing, scale, rosette design, fret markers, inlays, etc. So that meant that each of those guitars, when they arrived, were not only tonally outstanding but were also outstanding for playability and aesthetics. But there's one more important aspect...

Whenever someone buys a guitar I think it's also vastly important that they buy one that inspires them. I don't care at what level of playing one happens to be, whether first day or 70th+ year of playing, they should hunt for that instrument which inspires them to play, to create, to write, to practice, and to reach beyond their current ability. For every individual, that inspiration will be found in different instruments, but without inspiration, I think the player is a bit doomed from the start.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by koolimy

Hi, I have a question for those of you who have played or owned superlative guitars. What set them apart from your other good guitars?

I have only played guitars that can be classified as between mediocre to good, I don't think I've ever played a guitar that was amazing. To be frank, it is kind of hard to imagine how a guitar can be so much better than a "good guitar", but I don't have any experience so I wouldn't know.

Would appreciate your experiences and thoughts!

It's a very personal thing. But to me it's when tone, playability, and responsiveness all over the neck come together in such a way as to illicit a strong visceral response. Like when the guitar seems greater than the sum of its parts. You will know this when you finally play one, believe me. And there isn't a specific price point I'd say this happens at, but if you are a seasoned player that picks up on the smallest nuances, it will likely be noticed at the higher end stuff... Martin Authentics, other boutiques, etc.

[Br1ck]

For the sake of the discussion, let's call the D 18 a good guitar. Let's call a top of the line Yamaha or Eastman or some such an almost good guitar. Don't throw rocks, it's just for discussion. There is something I can hear in the D 18 I don't quite get in the others. A greater resonance, a richer tone, a psychosomatic reaction to the name Martin on the headstock. It's there in the D 18.

Any number of people make a mahogany back and sides, spruce top guitar for 50%-100% more money. They are, for the most part, fine guitars. Any number of features might get you to part with your money, varnish finishes, hide glue, modern high tech materials, inlay, etc.

Each is trying to find the guy who will bond with their idea of what a guitar should be. It's a fickle market, where most prospective customers have a lot of experience. One will prize volume, one aesthetics, one resonance, one clarity. Heck some just want exclusive. Where a almost good guitar might rate a seven out of ten, maybe the D 18 rates an 8.5. Now there are many 9+ guitars out there, but are you going to pay double or triple for them? Each person has their own ideas of this. From 30 years playing everything on Gryphon's used wall, so far the answer for me has been no. The one guitar that haunts me, a 39 J 35, I played by mistake. So yes, if I had the money it would have gone home with me. That is a lot of money to go from an 8.5 to a 9.5.

Someone else would call me a fool for considering it, I might question their sanity for wanting a SCGC cocobolo beauty. So is that itty bitty bit of something more worth it? I never question those that say yes, but so far for me, not yet. And certainly my 9.5 will not be someone else's 9.5.

I'd venture almost anyone could live happily with a D 18 if their circumstances required it. Or an Eastman for that matter.

[gfspencer]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Koolimy,

I think there are two kinds of players that can appreciate really responsive (and expensive) guitars: accomplished fingerstyle players and accomplished flat pickers. For many players the benefits of really responsive guitars may not be noticeable.

I'm not sure that I'm all that "accomplished," but I do own an Olson SJ (cedar/EIR) and a Gerald Sheppard GA Ave Maria (Italian Spruce/BRW), as well as other excellent guitars.

I just put this song up in the Show & Tell section of the forum to celebrate my wife and my 52nd anniversary today (June 6). I reference this song because I used both the Olson SJ and the Sheppard on this song.

- Glenn

I've been playing since 1964. I don't play near as good as you do. (Great video!) However, I am a pretty darn good rhythm player and I can tell the difference between one of my average guitars and one of my superlative guitars. The superlative guitars just sound better.

[J Patrick]

….at the end of the day the guitar that you absolutely love is as good as it gets….if you are a connoisseur of sorts you may more fully appreciate guitars that exhibit more of this or that….but having a guitar that you never want to part with is for me the pinnacle of how good a guitar can be….and at least in my case that feeling starts with an initial attraction and deepens with time…

[jaymarsch]

For me, it was a combination of nuances that elevated the whole experience of playing guitar. The tone that my ears were longing for and a responsiveness that belies my lighter touch all in a comfortable package. Playing beautiful music takes practice and effort but a guitar that hits the mark for my ears and hands makes the experience of practicing and playing so much more inspiring and satisfying.
In playing so many guitars over the years, including both factory and single-luthier built, I have found those inspirational guitars, more often than not among the ones that are handmade.
It doesn’t really matter to me if 20 other players do or don’t hear what I hear or feel what I feel when playing my luthier-built guitar. It’s always going to be subjective.
Best,
Jayne

[slimey]

I think the playability and dynamics are a huge indicator of an instruments quality, play it light or heavy it still gives perfect notes, projection, sustain.
Tone, while critical, is very much a personal taste thing. But I think we can all appreciate a very expressive instrument .
I have some guitars built by the big standards and some built by quality luthiers, the big name instruments are a bit like blunt implements, they may have their own recognizable tone and sound nice, but they have little by way of dynamic range and their playability , while acceptable , is not amazing.
Play any guitar by Santa Cruz and you'll understand playability, Play a Goodall , Lowden , Bourgeoise , Ryan, Olson etc, etc ( the lovely list of custom built instruments in this category is long , aren't we lucky ) and you'll understand dynamics.

[ckmurf]

Originally Posted by koolimy

Hi, I have a question for those of you who have played or owned superlative guitars. What set them apart from your other good guitars?

Excuse my usual long story. I have played guitar for >50 years now, and for most of that owned excellent, but mostly mere mortal guitars. A favorite being a Yamaha that I bought in the ‘80s for $175 and gave to a friend in 2000. But 5 years ago I toured SCGC factory in Santa Cruz, and then played more than 30 stellar guitars at Sylvan Music with absolutely no intention of spending any real money. A mahogany 12 fret Santa Cruz H just grabbed me, and I mean hard. I played it and played it, and then went back the next day to play it some more and the salesman looked at me and suggested that I was back to play the 12 fret. My wife (she didn’t get the memo on being the sensible one) bought it for me for my 60th birthday. 5 years later I still use it as the guitar to which all others are judged. I think about playing it when I can’t sleep, when I am at work, you name it. I sometimes get up in the middle of the night and play it. It is lovely and engaging. When I play it new musical ideas present themselves. But most important for me, it brings me peace. It is like meditating. If I can’t sleep I play it, then I can sleep. I’ve owned 4 Taylors, 3 SCGC, several Gibsons, Ramirez, Torres, yada yada yada. This one is IT. When I played it, I just knew because it told me. That’s what set it apart.

[Sadie-f]

I don't own a superlative guitar yet, I have one coming. I"ve played 3, and heard a couple of others.

I was able to play a Brazillian body SCGC OM, and a cocobolo D, they're both amazing guitars and they helped decide me on smaller body instruments for the foreseeable.

Those two guitars don't sound 10% better than my Martin, they're almost like entirely different instruments.

Saturday, I played this beautiful Froggy Bottom.

https://themusicemporium.com/product...7952e30c&_ss=c

Their description is not hyperbole. It's a fantastic guitar in a tiny package. Wasn't a huge surprise, I know the builder's reputation. I wouldn't take this over either of the Santa Cruz guitars I played. As perfect as the maple is, it's still not rosewood.

The reason I wanted to lay fingers on a good maple build is that in a few years I want to build my own maple acoustic to go along with my rosewood OMs. This was the guitar to display what's possible. Not that I think I can match that. However I do plan to best a 'good' class maple body I played that day as well.

Also, the comparison of these really brings out the idea that the guitar top is responsible for most of the dynamics in a guitar, and the back and the rest of the structure then add nuances to that.

All three of these guitars really wowed me with balance across the full range, and all adi topped, I found they could all be driven hard without losing nuance.