Most new guitars need to be set-up?

[Alberto]

Hello,

To introduce myself, I am a re-entry player, after about 20 years of not playing except picking up a guitar here or there. I started playing again at the begining of this year on my electric which fortunately I've keep under the bed all these years. But I ended up playing an old acoustic my wife kept in the closet more than the electric so I went out and purchased a Yamaha ll6 which is just fantastic.

My question, the action is a bit high or at least feels that way, compared to some of the other guitars I played before purchasing the ll6. This is a noob question I'm sure, but is common to have to get a new guitar set-up regardless of the price point or does my guitar need a set-up because it is mid-tier model?

This is a great site, and it really helped in selecting a new acoustic.

alberto

[Brent Hutto]

I've seen bargain-priced guitars that were sold with nicely done setups and I've seen expensive (by my standards) guitars that were sold with atrocious setups and everywhere in between. But even if you get one with a perfectly cromulent setup from the factory or dealer there's absolutely no guarantee that it will suit your hands and your playing style. So in the end, you almost always end up tweaking it one way or another.

P.S. And welcome to the AGF, Al. Hope it's OK to call you Al, kinda like the Paul Simon song.

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I've seen bargain-priced guitars that were sold with nicely done setups and I've seen expensive (by my standards) guitars that were sold with atrocious setups and everywhere in between. But even if you get one with a perfectly cromulent setup from the factory or dealer there's absolutely no guarantee that it will suit your hands and your playing style. So in the end, you almost always end up tweaking it one way or another.

Our friend Brent here likes to use big words (by my standards) which I'm simply going to fathom the meaning of and agree that there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to setups. Be prepared to tweak all new guitars to your liking and even re-tweak them as your playing preferences/styles change. As long as there's enough saddle to get the action down to where you're comfortable, all's well.

[cotten]

Welcome to the AGF community, Alberto! Great to have you with us.

It's not at all unusual for a guitar, regardless of it's price, to need to be adjusted a bit to better fit the needs of the player. That is because different players like different things, different feels. Someone who plays with a heavy hand probably needs a higher action to avoid buzzing than someone who plays with a light fingerstyle touch.

So, yes, if you'd like to have your new II6 set up to your preferences, go right ahead. No one here will think that's odd.

cotten

[Hambone]

Wood moves and everyone defines "great action" differently. It's not unusual for a new guitar to require tweaking to get the action to where the buyer wants it. If you're a "re-entry player" used to playing an electric you would probably be uncomfortable with action set for a bluegrasser.

Take it in to a luthier and tell him what you're looking for. But don't be surprised if the action changes a bit from season to season. Wood can and does react to humidity changes.

Congrats on the new instrument and make sure you properly humidify it during the winter months. Guitars like RH of 45%.

[RustyAxe]

ALL my guitars get a professional setup, regardless of what they cost. Factory specs (nut slot height, neck relief, saddle height, string gauge, etc) may not suit the individual player, and some things can be improved upon (fret leveling, polishing, different nut or saddle materials, etc).

I consider the setup part of the final cost of the guitar, and money very well spent.

[chistrummer]

All guitars can benefit from some kind of a setup. For instance if you are just starting out a lower action might make playing an acoustic easier but later you might want to bring the action back up a bit depending on your style. Take the guitar to a local luthier, most should be able to do basic setup for around $35 for you.

Good luck..

[Minotaur]

Out of 6 shop owners/ managers only 2 mentioned doing a set up before taking the guitar. The other 4 said that most guitars do not need a set up out of the box; what is done in the factory is sufficient. They thought set ups were overrated.

After 1 1/2 year of playing it, I took my Seagull to the repair shop in one of the local music shops. He said it didn't need much work... oiling the fretboard, adjust the trussrod a bit, some tightening of the tuners, restringing it for me with lighter and smoother strings. About $40. My Jackson electric cost about $70 because of the electronics. That was after almost 2 years of playing it.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Out of 6 shop owners/ managers only 2 mentioned doing a set up before taking the guitar. The other 4 said that most guitars do not need a set up out of the box; what is done in the factory is sufficient. They thought set ups were overrated.

Um, no comment...

[Michael T]

Welcome to the forum, lots of good folks here, lots of them, and many with fantastic knowledge who are very generous with their time and like to share. Post a lot, this is a fun place to hang out.

I have gotten to know a tech over the past few years who once told me if he heard as low as possible without buzzing one more time he was gonna smack 'em. He explained to me the best way he could help folks get a proper set up was to get them to relax a little and play him a few tunes so he could watch their style and discuss what their concerns were. So often people drop the guitar off at a shop and visit with the cashier about how they want their instrument to perform and it gets written down on a work order "set-up". In other words, find out who is actually going to do the work, "ask to speak with them", play them a couple of your favorite tunes and ask them what they would recommend for you.

[cotten]

Sounds like you've found a very wise guitar tech, Michael!

cotten

[Bob Womack]

It feels a little funny to quote my own website, but:

Originally Posted by Bob's website

Some folks ask, "Why should I pay for a new guitar to be set up? Shouldn't a brand new, expensive guitar be set up properly from the factory?" Well, ummm, uhh, the answer isn't necessarily "yes". WHAT? Well, let me clarify. Not everyone plays the same way. Different players with different styles need different setups. Some like 'em high, some like 'em low. What you consider a good setup may well not be what another player would consider a good setup. As a result, a factory-built guitar will come with a compromise setup, one designed to please as many players as possible and to require the least money to locally adjust to a particular player's style. For instance, to properly raise a low acoustic guitar action, the end user would have to supply a new saddle and nut. If the manufacurer supplies the instrument with the action set slightly higher and lets a local tech take it down, that expense isn't incurred.

But lets address another issue: The factories don't typically have the time/budget to dial in each production instrument to the final ten to fifteen percent or so of its capability. To do so would require paying a skilled technician to spend a sizeable chunk of time on each instrument, and that, in turn, would raise the final cost of the instrument to the buyer. Another reason for the factory to leave the action higher, rather than lower is to mask any high spots left in the frets or fretboard. In today's competitive atmosphere, it pays the factory to instead do a "pretty good" job that will please most of the players, and leave anything more to a local technician. It all makes economic sense, but the result is that most instruments have lots of room for improvement.

So, what does my money buy me when I have a guitar's frets dressed and the guitar setup? First off, a good technician drops the string tension down to where the strings can be pushed aside, or removes them entirely. He then removes the relief in the neck with the truss rod and runs a steel straight-edge up and down the neck, looking for high frets or high spots left by the factory or created by fingerboard swelling and shrinkage as the guitar finally settled in after it left the factory. When he encounters the high spots, the tech will use a file to lower them until the frets are leveled to play their best. Believe it or not, there may be loose frets from the factory. In order to get the best action, the tech may have to reseat them. Next, he'll use a crowning file to bring the frets to a proper crown shape to fret well, be in tune, and wear well. Finally, he'll round the fret ends to take off any feeling of sharpness. My tech makes as many as eight cuts per fret with a micro file to smooth the fret ends.

To finish off, he'll tune up the guitar, set the relief, and set nut and bridge height to accomplish the action you desire. If the guitar's bridge, saddle, or nut needs adjustment to better accomodate the radius of the fingerboard, he'll take care of that to bring each of the strings to the same height. Then he'll put on new strings and work on the guitar's intonation so that it plays as in-tune as it can, all the way up and down the neck at all fret positions. In the process, he'll address any hardware-based mechanical buzzes and/or problems. Finally, on an electric guitar, the tech will adjust the pickups and pole pieces to balance their output from string to string and pickup to pickup and give the best sound.

So, what is the result? First off, if at all possible, you'll end up with a guitar that doesn't buzz at any fret. That usually isn't the case from the factory. Next, the action will be optimized for your playing style, with the height at nut and bridge properly set. The guitar will intone to its best and any extraneous buzzes will be eliminated. And finally, any rough edges will be eliminated. The final result will be a guitar that is easier to play, sounds better, feels much more comfortable, and feels much more "you" than one straight from the factory. I am always amazed at how much more comfortable and "homey" a guitar feels when my tech finishes with it. A brand new guitar will feel broken-in, like it has been played for years. It feels like your favorite pair of jeans or sneakers. The result is an instrument you don't have to think about to play well. A good guitar improves greatly. A very good guitar becomes excellent.

Of course, another question is still hanging out there, being, "Why shouldn't I do my own setups?" Well, some people can do pretty good setups, and that is great. In my years playing guitar, I've done some tech work myself. In fact, I used to buy electric guitars, rehabilitate them by repairing any problems and setting them up, then re-sell them. But as my playing has developed, I've found a good technician and he does the work on my guitars. Why?

1. I've found that my playing benefits from the improvements that a real professional technician can bring to an instrument.

2. A professional setup really establishes a baseline for the capabilities of an instrument.

3. My professional tech has done this for years. He was the main neck luthier for a small-shop custom guitar luthiery before he began working on other's guitars. He sees guitars and their problems day-in-day-out. He can easily spot and correct problems I might miss or not be capable of handling.

4. Frankly, as I've bought better instruments, I've become squeamish about taking a file to them myself. I am nowhere near as capable a tech as I am a guitarist.

5. When I take a guitar to my tech right after I purchase it, he is able to evaluate it and tell me if there are any mistakes in workmanship that might make me want to take it back. That's a big financial plus.

So, you'll have to figure out whether a setup is something you'd want to do yourself, but it has become a settled question in my mind. My playing benefits from a modern, professional setup.

Bob

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I've seen bargain-priced guitars that were sold with nicely done setups and I've seen expensive (by my standards) guitars that were sold with atrocious setups and everywhere in between. But even if you get one with a perfectly cromulent setup from the factory or dealer there's absolutely no guarantee that it will suit your hands and your playing style. So in the end, you almost always end up tweaking it one way or another.

P.S. And welcome to the AGF, Al. Hope it's OK to call you Al, kinda like the Paul Simon song.

What Brent said... Yes. I'd suggest finding a good technician and tell him what you want and see if he can improve things for you. But an acoustic with a set of light gauge strings (12's) is not going to be as easy to play as an electric with 10's on it. Some people do go to extra light (11's) on acoustics to help make the transition. To me, 11's sound anemic, but they might work OK for you on your guitar.

By the way, welcome to the forum and welcome back to the guitar after all these years!

Regards, Glenn

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Out of 6 shop owners/ managers only 2 mentioned doing a set up before taking the guitar. The other 4 said that most guitars do not need a set up out of the box; what is done in the factory is sufficient. They thought set ups were overrated.

Really ... you need to find a better class of "shop owners/ managers". I really feel for the newbies who are mislead by such people, and suffer unnecessarily with a poorly setup axe.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Alberto

...To introduce myself, I am a re-entry player, after about 20 years of not playing except picking up a guitar here or there.

Hello Alberto…
Hello and welcome to the forum! Great folks around here - so jump in and enjoy the groups.