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#1
10-08-2009, 07:02 AM
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Please help me deside this dispute
Hello
I bought this guitar on ebay. It was described at "vintage mint" and seller told me that the action was great and there were no issues. When I played the guitar I noticed a lot of buzzing. I inspected the neck and discovered that there was no relief at all. Then I loosened the truss rod to get just a hair relief and then the action became pretty high. Maybe 1/8'' low E 12th fret. Unfortunately there is almost no saddle left, so I couldn't lower the action without complete removing break angle at the high strings. I started a paypal dispute, claiming that the guitar has a neck angle problem. The seller keeps saying that the guitar is alright and that I should just tighten the truss rod again and get a fret dressing. I took these pictures: http://www.bgst.dk/Home/neck.jpg http://www.bgst.dk/Home/close.jpg I think that these pictures shows pretty clearly that the guitar has a neck angle problem. The guitar is a Alverez Yairi DY55 1978. I payed $xxx and now demand a partial refund. How much would be reasonable to claim? Last edited by rlouie; 10-08-2009 at 07:56 AM. Reason: no price discussion rule 
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#2
10-08-2009, 07:45 AM
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I'd contact the seller and offer up a few names of local, well respected luthiers, give him a choice. I'd take the guitar there and without explaining any of the situation, ask "what would it take to do a full setup on this guitar?" You'll get the information right there, I'd offer the luthier $25 to write the estimate out and sign it. I'd then copy that to the seller and we'd have some objective information to work with.
Very best of luck, don't stress too much. Clark
__________________
Martin D-18, Newell mandolin or whatever else I'm playing today.
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#3
10-08-2009, 07:46 AM
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The neck set is bad. Not enough back set. The end of the straight edge should end up laying on the top of the bridge when laid flat on the fretboard.
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#4
10-08-2009, 07:51 AM
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Seller either doesn't know what a bad neck set looks like or doesn't care. Looks like it needs a reset or shaving the bridge as a temporary measure.
Either way, it seems grounds to return the guitar that was sold with "no issues"
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Cranky, and living at the bottom of the barrel 
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#5
10-08-2009, 08:02 AM
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Thanks, the problem is that I live in Denmark so:
1) shipping is very expensive. Also, I've payed about $200 in taxes to get it into Denmark. If I ship it back I will lose a lot of money. 2) luthiers are very expensive too. I went to my usual luthier and he estimated $200 for shaving the bridge and shimming the nut. Maybe it would be fair to claim a $200 refund? I'm just not happy about getting the bridge shaved since I'm afraid the it will affect the tone? How much is the value of such a guitar?
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#6
10-08-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
From the photos you are showing, the guitar appears to need a neck reset. Though that can't really be determined without seeing what the action is at the nut and what the relief is. If you want this fixed properly, get the neck reset.
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Paul Woolson
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#8
10-08-2009, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Paul Woolson
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#9
10-08-2009, 08:36 AM
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I had a neck reset done last year in the US and it cost around $550 with new frets. I don't know how much they cost in Denmark, but presumably you bought this guitar because you thought it was a good deal on a vintage guitar you really wanted. If you return it, you'll lose on your shipping at the very least. As my tech said, with a neck reset you are virtually getting the benfits of a vintage guitar with the benefit of a new guitar's action (I know, he would say that!, but he's a great guy), neck angle and playability. It may be worth it in the long run.
Last edited by ewalling; 10-08-2009 at 08:44 AM.
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#10
10-08-2009, 08:39 AM
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I think a reset would cost me at least $1000 here...
Why is it so wrong to shave the bridge? Is it because it is only a temporary fix? Is it because the guitar becomes structually weaker? or is it because it will sound worse?
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#11
10-08-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
The bridge is built that way for a reason. It is the initial source of all of the tone. Reduce the mass, by shaving it, and you've completely changed the physics of the guitar. Not to mention that there will be very little structure to support the saddle so a severe crack is probable. Anyone worth his salt would not recommend shaving a bridge. It's just not the fix for the problem. It would be like having a car that burnt oil very badly. So the performance was not where it should be. Well, changing seals would be very expensive so a mechanic recommended changing spark plugs. Sure the car might run a bit better initially, but the problem is still there. And it's not going to get any better on it's own.
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Paul Woolson
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#12
10-08-2009, 08:50 AM
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It seems there are 3 choices here:
1. Send the guitar back. You will "lose" $200, and maybe shipping. 2. Keep it and get a partial refund. Hopefully you will break even, as the seller should pay to make it right. 3. Keep it and eat the cost of a neck reset. This may be more than $200. Some of the decision lies in how much you like / want this particular guitar. If it's just a "good deal" purchase, I would consider sending it back, and chaulking up $200 to experience. If you really like the guitar, best bet is number 2, assuming the seller agrees. Item 3 seems to me a non-starter - but depends on your atttachment to this particular style / model. Perhaps this is somewhat rare, and you have been looking for months for such a guitar - I don't know. IMHO, the seller should stand by his advertisement, and either agree to make it mint - or accept the guitar back. Yes, you may lost some money by sending it back, but that's the nature of almost any purchase - "buyer beware" is a common theme even in law. There is no protection for not being careful in making a purchase. There is protection for out and out misrepresentation - and ebay and Paypal together do offer some protection. Read the ebay fine print very carefully on this topic and understand your rights and obligations.
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_____________ Collings D1H Custom Collings D2HA Collings OM2H Custom
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#13
10-08-2009, 08:50 AM
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From the sounds of it.. More luthiers should move to Denmark
 I don't think that guitar has a bolt on neck so it will be expensive to reset, but reset is really the only option to properly fix it. Bummer.
__________________
Guitars: Eastman AC710, Eastman E10P, Stonebridge GS23-CR, Gibson Chet Atkins CEC/CE, Sigma 000MC-1STE Retired and in search of a happy ending.. but not soon!!
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#14
10-08-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
But I've had a Gibson J45 for over 30 years. When I bought it originally, the action was too high (which I decided after playing it for a couple of years). I also wanted to install a passive pickup. (It's been so long ago, I can't even tell you what pickup was installed -- but it still works perfectly). To the point, I'm about 89 % certain that the guy shaved the bridge in order to lower the action. The only alternative --- I guess -- would have been to shave the saddle!?! (but that's not my recollection). Anyway, the guitar has performed perfectly for over three decades. So, I guess my question would be the same as the OP -- what's the real issue with shaving the bridge if you're in his unenviable position? Sorry, my post got here after PWoolson's response. Thx, geokie8 Last edited by geokie8; 10-08-2009 at 09:04 AM.
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#15
10-08-2009, 08:59 AM
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I just checked my Alvarez.. Now it ain't no 30 year old guitar, but the straight edge is about 1/8th of a inch below the top of the bridge. This is a rather inexpensive MD-65, and it isn't that old. The action is fine, but the saddle has been shaved beyond where it should probably be... So having said all this, your guitar is 30+ years old and I would imagine the neck would have pulled a small amount in that time, so perhaps what you are seeing is somewhat normal for that guitar
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Guitars: Eastman AC710, Eastman E10P, Stonebridge GS23-CR, Gibson Chet Atkins CEC/CE, Sigma 000MC-1STE Retired and in search of a happy ending.. but not soon!!
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