Big day tomorrow –– It's here!

[b1j]

OK, so I guess it's up there. I'll post over in Show and Tell.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Hmm, well, I'm not sure I've uploaded full length songs, so that might be a limitation. But I thought Barry had done some full-length tunes that way.

Here's the screen with the download checkbox. You can even do it by editing an existing upload:

Attachment 107816

There's always DropBox/Google Drive, etc. You can also send files up to 2 Gig directly to individuals via WeTransfer (free). Not good for sharing with the masses, but a good way to share files with targetted people.

That did it! I've enabled downloads. Many thanks.

[Doug Young]

Sounds good to me! I think the sound quality is good, nice job on the recording. Levels are good, looks like about -15 LUFS overall. I hear some compression on the louder parts, especially around 3:40, tho that may be your track compression rather than the mastering? Not sure. But nice and clean. Cool idea to do a multi-guitar take like this.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Sounds good to me! I think the sound quality is good, nice job on the recording. Levels are good, looks like about -15 LUFS overall. I hear some compression on the louder parts, especially around 3:40, tho that may be your track compression rather than the mastering? Not sure. But nice and clean. Cool idea to do a multi-guitar take like this.

Thanks for listening and for your thoughts, Doug. I'm tagging along far behind you, but loving the procession.

Yes, that passage around 3:40 is the part I want to jump out at the listener. The high guitar track has compression on it, but only a ratio of 2:1. I think the master has brought up the quiet parts so much that the sonic peaks are a little swallowed up. Indeed, the master has me not really recognizing the track in quite the same way I've gotten used to it. I'm going to give it some days to see what I think of it.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Best of luck! You will learn a lot!

- Glenn

Glenn, thanks as always for your cheerful support!

[zuzu]

A session with a mastering engineer? I would bring a pillow...

[b1j]

Originally Posted by zuzu

A session with a mastering engineer? I would bring a pillow...

____________—
?

[zuzu]

I have some ears and mix commonplace tracks fairly well, and can usually achieve a real "finish" to a mix...working about 3 hours at a time. I have only sat in on one mastering session for a couple of hours and it is quite beyond me. The minuteness of the detail and the intricateness with which the guy pursued his sonic goal will never be a place I get to in my work at a "console". All that detail is like oxygen for my mastering engineer, he loves it, craves it, and there is almost nothing he would rather do. I'm not quite that way.

[Acousticado]

b1j, I listened and posted my thoughts in your thread at S&T. Imo, impressive. Well done!

[b1j]

Originally Posted by zuzu

I have some ears and mix commonplace tracks fairly well, and can usually achieve a real "finish" to a mix...working about 3 hours at a time. I have only sat in on one mastering session for a couple of hours and it is quite beyond me. The minuteness of the detail and the intricateness with which the guy pursued his sonic goal will never be a place I get to in my work at a "console". All that detail is like oxygen for my mastering engineer, he loves it, craves it, and there is almost nothing he would rather do. I'm not quite that way.

So true! I was bewildered during my first time witnessing a mastering process. I wouldn’t be surprised if mastering engineers have a private joke about mixing people (“watch this: I’ll leave him in the dust.”),

My guy was highly capable, patient with me, and professional, but there was no way I was going to come away knowing how to master a song. Surely he knew that from the start. In a way, though, that alone was worthwhile.

[Acousticado]

I just finished listening to “Crystal Voice” and your new song, “Pathetique,” back-to-back on my quality vintage stereo system. Very different songs, but I must say that although the new one is better recorded, balanced and with higher volume, CV sounds very good to me. The guitar in CV sounds a bit shrill at times, but mastering that song could produce a very good result. If I can achieve even the sound quality of that song, I’ll be very happy.

Even if you have your songs mastered by someone else, I think you’ve reached a tracking and mixing milestone that will allow you to produce some real fine material. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

I just finished listening to “Crystal Voice” and your new song, “Pathetique,” back-to-back on my quality vintage stereo system. Very different songs, but I must say that although the new one is better recorded, balanced and with higher volume, CV sounds very good to me. The guitar in CV sounds a bit shrill at times, but mastering that song could produce a very good result. If I can achieve even the sound quality of that song, I’ll be very happy.

Even if you have your songs mastered by someone else, I think you’ve reached a tracking and mixing milestone that will allow you to produce some real fine material. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.

Tom, I appreciate the interest and feedback. It feels new and different to have someone listen to my songs!

To spruce up Crystal Voice, I'd need to retrack the acoustic guitar in my new paneled space. I like the song so much that it wouldn't surprise me if I did that eventually. Those panels put me in a different world, and I probably haven't found the optimum arrangement for them yet.

[alohachris]

Aloha Bij,

Great job in actively moving forward FAST & aggressively in your recording learning curve & for being open to trying or considering the many suggestions here.

However, I am especially impressed by how fast you enlisted an ME to master & put the magic into your tracks. That's some big wisdom right there, that most at AGF never ever consider, even as so many ARE NOT cut out emotionally to master all the tasks of DAW home recording. Most get stuck, & settle for unfathomably bad results. (Playing though lousy mic's, Ha!)

Actually, several longtime AGFer's are quite good at mastering. And are generous with time. You might seek the advice of their ears & advice too for mixing & mastering.

Suggestion: Years ago, when DAW's first came on board in the late-90's/early 2000's, I used to suggest that everyone at AGF just try out manufacturers' free samples online to find the right DAW for their individual sensibilities.

This was a result of wasting a year on the the cheaper consumer models of Pro Tools like PTLE that were error-message central. And almost all DAW's had some serious limitation or problem in those early years. I tried every sample available & finally found the one for me.

I ended up on Logic Pro on an iMac (new then for me) which really improved & developed fast & Apple also completely invested in the software & still does. Only $200, & it never crashed even once & has more onboard plug-in's, samples & features than I'd ever use - HIGHEST QUALITY! And more intuitive every year. You really don't need tons & tons of new external plug-in's every year.

Under Apple's former 'one-to one program', for over a year, I also received 55 individual Logic Training Sessions at their nearby Apple store from certified Logic trainers which really demystifed it all for me. To the point where I could create clear, decent tracks for my decidedly non-commercial, just a few channels, mostly acoustic & vocal home projects.

Note: I have played on many studio projects over the decades, & made/sold thousands of cassettes of my fresh Island music for sale to returning Island tourists every year. Back when selling CD's & tapes was a highly lucrative part of gigging out here. But I only recorded my own music for myself when DAW's finally allowed professional results. Sure, I loved home recording for the learning - but not nearly as much as playing live at sunset for couples in Waikiki.

But still, even at that point, I also finally enlisted a great ME to provide a professional reference for what I was already trying to do. I learned so much, B1j! Even though I'd been a nightly gigger for over 50 years & also been around studio projects for about the same, starting as a teenager. THe workflow of an ME is like magic to watch! And to listen to how subtltie changes in can bring music to life.

The first thing I noticed working with an ME was that Pro Tools & Logic Pro were the only DAW's that were truly professional AND COMPATIBLE with most studio DAW's. They're the only DAW's offered in most studio's. And that is largely the way it is now. Again, they were the only ones constantly investing in their DAW's. So I wanted my tracks to be compatible with my ME's. I was happy I was already into Logic Pro. Compatible Tracks! You went with Studio One to work with your multi-track MOTU6, right? Upgrade the hardware & the software to Logic Pro. j1i.

So my suggestion, if you're going the ME route, is to switch ASAP to Logic Pro or PT for compatibility & also for seeing how an ME structures his workflows in different tasks. If you can deliver clear tracks in Logic to an ME with Logic, you will Save Session money & be all the more ahead of the learning curve in terms of what he can teach you in-house, bij. Logic is very affordable, is high quality, & offers more essentials than Reaper, Studio One, Ableton, Garageband, etc. It's a huge upgrade.

Ya know, it always puzzles me that player/recordists so often end up wasting so much time trying to learn/work on lesser DAW's than PT & Logic. I mean sure, Reaper is under $50, but compared to Logic at $200, why hinder your growth & waste your time for lesser results? Logic is another world now - fantastic!. That's why the Doug Young's around here all choose it, especially for solo acoustic work. Again, Logic never crashed once for me in 20 years, not once! I tracked just 1-2 tracks at a time but always was able to put several tracks together into a song. And when I worked with ME's, I had zero problems with compatibility. Just slip Logic into Logic & let the magic begin. And the learning too. Luckily, my ME was a close local friend for decades, so he was always more than fair on the price. He's really the best in the Islands.

The main thing is that none of us home player/recordists will ever be able to put the time into mastering - that 30-50 years - that an ME already has & can. So why waste the time?!? Just give the ME the kinds of pro level clean & clear tracks that best help him master in his magic, AND CONCENTRATE MORE ON PLAYING THE MUSIC.

That's where the wisdom is if you're trying to create marketable or downloadable streamed tracks in any format.

Though it's fun to 'talk' recording here, the truth is that most player/recordists cannot PLAY & RECORD effectively at the same time. And the recording obsession actually leads to typically FLAT playing performances. It's Right brain vs. Left brain dynamic of trying to play loose & fresh while you're watching the LUFS meter on the screen or hearing deficiencies that distract from performance.

That's what I finally realized was my problem or limitation; Trying to create Decent recordings of uninspired playing of the music while thinking about being an engineer at the same time. Ha! Not many can!

Utilizing an ME really helped me see that after so many years of 'good but blah' recordings of my songs in my very decent home studio (not like Doug, but not far off either. Glad I went that route because it wasn't long after that that progressive diabetic neuropathy took away my ability to play guitar at all. Worse still, my aging voice is so limited & old sounding now I can't even listen to any longer, HA.

So b1j, way to quickly progress in your personal recording journey & for getting to an ME early with an open mind to help you with recording. I love how undaunted & fearless you are in your pursuit of all this new knowledge using new termininology from a new sector. You're working it so it works for your goals. Bravo!

BTW, I was surprised by your creative, well-played version of the "Pathetique" at 'Show & Tell.' Loved how you used the dynamics, & the pacing & reverb across the whole 6:20. Loved the emphasis using high electric? guitar as well. Interesting offset! I didn't know you played classical pieces. That is one of my piano favorites. I used to play a few classical fingerstyle pieces & especially love the Baroque Era w/ JS Bach -esp. Cello Suites, Offenbach, Vivaldi & Haydn. I am more a committed classical student who has seen great classical concerts in most of the great halls of this planet than a player though I was primarily a fingerstyle gigger playing slack-key, jazz, blues, singer/songwriter stuff. My hands were far too big for learning classical. 2" aint wide enough! Ha! Again, excellent job on "Pathetique."


Bji, I wish you all the best in this journey It is such a fun one, Huh. And...you play so well & are very musical in your choices.

A Hui Hou!

alohachris


PS: They call the space between the notes, "God's Beat." And in terms of how a piece feels, it's more important than the notes themseleves. My ME taught me that using all the Mixing & Mastering tools subtractively is the best way to keep God's Beat in the mix. Overdoing those tools is the best way to kill it. Ex: too many AGF's use far too much compression & limiting when first into home recording. Lack of taste, I guess. A GOOD ME tries to use Far less control - especially compression. -alohachris-

[alohachris]

Aloha Bji,

Here's a very clear progression by Doug Young while he was creating a great guitar track on a killer recording signal chain, in Logic Pro.

Then Doug posts before & after finished tracks, for release, examples of that track he completed himself AND what his ME friend did with it.

Step By Step with everything listed, this is VERY useful to see & hear the progression. Great info which is why I save it.

Doug shared this here at AGF in 2012. Sure some of the gear is now upgraded but it was so good back then it's still useful to see how best to use an ME. And sounds great!

Enjoy, b1j!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5kCVXyQDys

alohachris

[b1j]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Bij,

I am especially impressed by how fast you enlisted an ME to master & put the magic into your tracks. That's some big wisdom right there, that most at AGF never ever consider, even as so many ARE NOT cut out emotionally to master all the tasks of DAW home recording. Most get stuck, & settle for unfathomably bad results. (Playing though lousy mic's, Ha!)

You went with Studio One to work with your multi-track MOTU6, right? Upgrade the hardware & the software to Logic Pro. j1i.

So my suggestion, if you're going the ME route, is to switch ASAP to Logic Pro or PT for compatibility & also for seeing how an ME structures his workflows in different tasks. If you can deliver clear tracks in Logic to an ME with Logic, you will Save Session money & be all the more ahead of the learning curve in terms of what he can teach you in-house, bij. Logic is very affordable, is high quality, & offers more essentials than Reaper, Studio One, Ableton, Garageband, etc. It's a huge upgrade.

Ya know, it always puzzles me that player/recordists so often end up wasting so much time trying to learn/work on lesser DAW's than PT & Logic. I mean sure, Reaper is under $50, but compared to Logic at $200, why hinder your growth & waste your time for lesser results? Logic is another world now - fantastic!. That's why the Doug Young's around here all choose it, especially for solo acoustic work. Again, Logic never crashed once for me in 20 years, not once! I tracked just 1-2 tracks at a time but always was able to put several tracks together into a song. And when I worked with ME's, I had zero problems with compatibility. Just slip Logic into Logic & let the magic begin. And the learning too. Luckily, my ME was a close local friend for decades, so he was always more than fair on the price. He's really the best in the Islands.

So b1j, way to quickly progress in your personal recording journey & for getting to an ME early with an open mind to help you with recording. I love how undaunted & fearless you are in your pursuit of all this new knowledge using new termininology from a new sector. You're working it so it works for your goals. Bravo!

BTW, I was surprised by your creative, well-played version of the "Pathetique" at 'Show & Tell.' Loved how you used the dynamics, & the pacing & reverb across the whole 6:20. Loved the emphasis using high electric? guitar as well. Interesting offset! I didn't know you played classical pieces. That is one of my piano favorites. I used to play a few classical fingerstyle pieces & especially love the Baroque Era w/ JS Bach -esp. Cello Suites, Offenbach, Vivaldi & Haydn. I am more a committed classical student who has seen great classical concerts in most of the great halls of this planet than a player though I was primarily a fingerstyle gigger playing slack-key, jazz, blues, singer/songwriter stuff. My hands were far too big for learning classical. 2" aint wide enough! Ha! Again, excellent job on "Pathetique."

Thanks for your interest, alohachris. Lots to unpack here.

1) DAW choice was irrelevant to the mastering engineer. He asked me for a .wav file of my final mix, a mixdown that happened to be from Studio One, but could just as well have been from any DAW.

2) I credit Studio One for introducing me to DAWs. When I caught up with it in 2010, it was a simple home-studio/hobbyist/amateur focused product that was intuitive and easy to learn. Hit me where I live. Since then, though, it has grown up. Ask anyone today, and versions 5 and 6 are considered full-featured, easily capable of any tracking, mixing, and even mastering magic (if one knows how to do those things, that is). Slinging epithets at it (waste of time, lesser DAW) strikes me as off-topic and unnecessary at best and ... well, ...

3) I don't play the same guitars as everyone (although my tastes are pretty standard), and I've never felt compelled to try to act like a pro and use the DAWs the pros use because the pros use them. Playing with a Wilson basketball won't get me into the NBA. (I also sure don't use the mountain of hardware plug-ins lining the walls of my engineer!) The truth is, I prefer the drag and drop and the visuals in Studio One, probably because that's what I'm used to by now. Undaunted and fearless indeed. As I mentioned somewhere in the forum today, I feel very fortunate to consider my gear optimum for my needs, not simply good enough.

4) Also, importantly, sitting with the engineer may well have cured me of wanting to master my own work. Adam Smith's division of labor strikes a chord in me. However, I'm eager to look at Doug's video that you sent. If I can get 80% of the improvement with 20% of the gadgetry, that might hold some appeal. But I'll never even aim for the remarkable nuances my engineer was able to pull out. It was a thing of beauty. Doug's process sounds more up my alley.

5) Thank you for your warm feedback on my take on Pathétique. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. My pacing, reverb, and dynamic themes reflect how I hear the piece in my mind. I didn't follow LvB's dynamic markings very closely at all, although I didn't completely ignore them. I had something else to express with the master's sublime music.

6) The only electric in my recording is the Magnum III bass, played unprocessed through a cheap DI. That high guitar you hear is my almost entirely unprocessed Gurian. The jewel in my collection. I have to say, its tone blew me away in this recording. I'll be looking for other ways to feature it in future work.

Aloha.