Change in guitar tone when pickup installed?

[Cbanjo]

I agree with your luthier, any tonal difference you hear will largely be in your head IMO. Most people think that they can hear a lot more than they can, the amount of material taken off of your saddle would be very minimal, the pickup itself isnt going to impede anything on the inside. The under the saddle style ones with on board control are the least obtrusive of any style.

THis is of course assuming that hte guy did everything right, and like the first poster said didnt mess up the bottom of the saddle or do something foolish with the wiring inside, like using a ton of those stick on C-clamp jobbies on the top or whatever.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

The surprising, and unexpected, thing was how much better my Olson sounded acoustically with the new bone saddle.

I know we've disccused this before, I had the same experience changing my Olson's micarta LB6 to a bone saddle. I suspect it was the micarta to bone, not really the pickup in this case. I just replaced my bone saddle with a one of Bob Colosi's bone LB6s, hoping to have the best of both worlds, and I'm quite happy with it. I think there may be a slight difference in tone, but I may also be imagining it, and the guitar sounds great, so I'm happy. The replacement was also a simple slip-in, so I still have the normal bone saddle if I ever change my mind.

However, on the original issues, I've had several guitars dramatically change as a result of having an undersaddle put in. I'm not sure it's the fault of the undersaddles themselves, tho it could be. Lots of people say there should be no effect if the pickup is "properly installed", and there's the rub. Even with a good tech, you're dealing with a sensitive area of the guitar, where a slight change in how the saddle seats, how high the action is, etc, could affect things. Its just a place I'd prefer not to have messed with unless it's to solve a problem. If I were to have an undersaddle put in something, I'd also ask that the original saddle be left untouched, so I can go back to it. If the height needs to be adjusted, make a new saddle. That doesn't rule out all the things that could go wrong, but it's one less thing.

[Bikerdoc]

Well how opportune is this thread? I was discussing what pickup for my DM19. (A side note: what an amazing Sigma)

I have the factory Fishman set-up in my Gibson Songwriter and a K&K Mini in a Sigma DM-4B. Both do a wonderful job. But this dude was trying to tell me that a thinline UTS pickup would be better. His argument FOR the UTS was the same argument I've read AGAINST the UTS. He was saying the thinline was thin enough that no sanding of the saddle was required. I tried to explain to him the string buffering affects of the saddle and the need to have that "intimate" contact the entire length. His claim that anything put "in" the body under the bridge (because it adds mass) will have more negative affect on tonal quality than a thinline. He was darn convincing but not enough to make me want to take the chance and mess with an already decent setup on my DM19. Plus, if I go back through this thread I think UTS reads as the least disireable.

Man, I just love this forum.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I know we've disccused this before, I had the same experience changing my Olson's micarta LB6 to a bone saddle. I suspect it was the micarta to bone, not really the pickup in this case.

Hi Doug...
In all fairness, you may be correct. I loved the sound of the LB-6 when properly preamped, and balanced with an internal mic. I really had no issue with the sound of the guitar acoustically either. By the way, it was you who put me on my search and exploration by suggesting to me that your Olson sounded better when you changed the saddle to bone.

I was shocked at what a difference it made after it was changed out. I have not had the opportunity to hear one of Bob Colosi's bone-capped LB-6 pickups, but suspect the bone equipped version would be more responsive and sound better than the micarta version for a couple of reasons.

In a phone conversation with James Olson in 2003 when I was considering equipping my commissioned (at the time not completed) Bashkin with the same Baggs dual-source with LB-6 system as was in my Olson, he shared that the new LB-6s since the mid-90s were equipped with a softer version of Micarta that he felt didn't last as well, nor sound as good as the one in my Olson (1992 install).

Second, the extra depth of the LB-6 contributes to better sound transfer than a normal saddle with undersaddle setup, and the appendaged brass pickup part on the LB-6 is carefully bonded to the saddle - not free floating above it. And I didn't forget it was in reality 6 piezos.

The bone version was not available at the time I switched to K&K equipped guitars - I don't know what choice I'd have made had it been. On the plus side looking back, the LB-6 sounds great in a dual source rig, but the Baggs Dual Source rig without the volume control totalled more than 5.8 ounces when it was removed from my Olson (I weighed it). I cannot help but think that preamp that was stuck to the back of my guitar and weighed about 3 ounces had to have some effect on the sound too.