12 String Guitar Advice

[phavriluk]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

Do yourself a huge favor. Find a Yamaha FG820. It sounds fantastic and, after a set up, easy to play. Cheap, too. Under $400.

Try any of the Godin (Seagull et.al.) variations. My Seagull Walnut 12 played beautifully. It got replaced by a 12-string I made.

[ScottSD]

A used Taylor 756CE would will come in less than $3k and I really like mine. I think they're the minimum size for a decent sounding 12er.... They play really easy as well.

Scott

[SRL]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

My internet search and in-hand testing suggest the Martin HD12-28 is a good solution. But, it's a little expensive. And, it sounds like a D-28 with more strings. I was hoping for something a little different.

If you're looking for something different try a Gibson J-45 12 string. It sounds *very* different from most due to the mahogany back/sides and the short scale.

I can also recommend the Yamaha LL-16-12 if you don't mind the relatively narrow string spacing (1.75" nut). It's solid torrefied Engelmann and solid rosewood, it's very loud and sounds fantastic and is quite affordable, check out the Sweetwater reviews. The 25" scale also makes it a little lower tension. I would still have it if not for the string spacing.

My Martin HD-12-28 replaced the Yamaha It sounds very similar, but costs a lot more: I was able to get it used for $2200, about 3x the cost of a used Yamaha. The Martin has similar specs to the Yamaha except a wider nut and wider string spacing, making fingerstyle much easier for me. I also like the looks a bit better on the Martin although that is subjective of course.

Happy hunting!

[Teherie]

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t buy a 12 string without playing it first. I have an all mahogany Larrivee LV03 12 string that I bought new in 2005 that is a keeper for me. It excels at fingerpicking and strumming and was set up by my dealer who was also an experienced luthier.

If I could find the right Martin D12-20 or Guild 12 string from the 60s, I’d consider it. I’d also like to try a Gibson 12 string like Gordon Lightfoot used. In all the years I watched and listened to him, I never saw him play any other 12 string models. There’s something to be said about that.

Good luck.

[ghostnote]

Three years ago, mid-pandemic, I was inexpensive-12-string shopping and I was very enamored with the Guild D1212 and the Yamaha LL16-12. Both have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, so it isn’t just me. I would have bought either if I could have found one anywhere, but no one had any guitars in stock in those days, and couldn’t say when they would. I ended up buying the last remaining Taylor 362ce I could find, at considerably more money. I really like the Taylor now, for many reasons, but I still wonder about those other two.

[martingitdave]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I will be doing some hands-on shopping today. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm thankful for the advice that's been offered. It's funny that in 2015 there were a plethora of new 12 strings from all the brands sitting in shops waiting to be purchased.

Post pandemic, every unit of production is scrutinized and the supply more carefully matches the demand. Finding the vintage models in good shape, that were common, is next to impossible.

So, enjoy your good "keeper" guitars and don't let them get too far away from you. You probably won't get them back without considerable time and expense.

[negriljerry]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Hi Folks,

I need a little shopping help. I've been slowly regaining hand control and can play 12 string again. I cannot play my Guild F-512 anymore. Sadly, I sold it. I am playing a used Taylor 254ce. The Taylor plays easily and has been a good companion instrument. However, now that I am feeling a little more bullish on my recovery, I would like to invest in the right sized and right playing solid wood 12 string again.

I am looking for something no larger than a dreadnought (a maximum of 16" lower bout), easy playing, great sounding, and for a price less than $3,000. Bargains are welcome.

My internet search and in-hand testing suggest the Martin HD12-28 is a good solution. But, it's a little expensive. And, it sounds like a D-28 with more strings. I was hoping for something a little different. I did try and find a used D12-35, in good condition, but they are pretty rare now. I am open to other brands. A Larrivee L-09-12? Something imported that sounds great and is less expensive?

I've been through 5 12-strings in the past 4 years. My keeper is a Breedlove Organic Solo Pro ( I think that's the name, it's listed in my signature) which plays significantly easier than the all solid Eastman I just traded off, and the import version of the Guild, and a D'Angelico which actually played about as easy as the Breedlove but sounded like garbage acoustically. Street price should be no more than $1,000 on this model, a great bargain if you're okay with an import.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Hi Folks,

I need a little shopping help. I've been slowly regaining hand control and can play 12 string again. I cannot play my Guild F-512 anymore. Sadly, I sold it. I am playing a used Taylor 254ce. The Taylor plays easily and has been a good companion instrument. However, now that I am feeling a little more bullish on my recovery, I would like to invest in the right sized and right playing solid wood 12 string again.

I am looking for something no larger than a dreadnought (a maximum of 16" lower bout), easy playing, great sounding, and for a price less than $3,000. Bargains are welcome.

My internet search and in-hand testing suggest the Martin HD12-28 is a good solution. But, it's a little expensive. And, it sounds like a D-28 with more strings. I was hoping for something a little different. I did try and find a used D12-35, in good condition, but they are pretty rare now. I am open to other brands. A Larrivee L-09-12? Something imported that sounds great and is less expensive?

Hi Dave,

I'm glad you are feeling some improvement, though I am sorry to hear you could no longer play your Guild F-512 and consequently sold it.

I would think that a Martin HD12-28 or a D12-35 would be just as hard to play as the F-512. I drove 120 miles from my home to Seattle to try out a restored D12-35 in Seattle some years ago and I didn't like the guitar at all. I found it extremely hard to play with a much thicker neck than my Guild F-212 that I was used to.

I'm wondering if one of the smaller Taylor 12-fret 12-strings might work well for you, something like the all-mahogany 562CE. I did a quick search and there are several of these used models up for sale and ~$2K in price. I played one of these in the past and it reminded me of the sound I got from my Guild F-212. And it's easy to play. It's a 12-fret design, a short scale, it looks good, it sounds good.

Here is a demo of the Taylor 562CE:



I hope you keep getting better, Dave. You have had a long journey.

- Glenn

[Lkristians]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Dave,

I'm glad you are feeling some improvement, though I am sorry to hear you could no longer play your Guild F-512 and consequently sold it.

I would think that a Martin HD12-28 or a D12-35 would be just as hard to play as the F-512. I drove 120 miles from my home to Seattle to try out a restored D12-35 in Seattle some years ago and I didn't like the guitar at all. I found it extremely hard to play with a much thicker neck than my Guild F-212 that I was used to.

I'm wondering if one of the smaller Taylor 12-fret 12-strings might work well for you, something like the all-mahogany 562CE. I did a quick search and there are several of these used models up for sale and ~$2K in price. I played one of these in the past and it reminded me of the sound I got from my Guild F-212. And it's easy to play. It's a 12-fret design, a short scale, it looks good, it sounds good.

Here is a demo of the Taylor 562CE:



I hope you keep getting better, Dave. You have had a long journey.

- Glenn

As always, great advice from Glenn!

[HFox]

Taylor K64ce or like.
I'm 77 a bit weaker in my hands but I love this guitar......I can get a fairly good sound when fretting F & B.
Or the 562ce is about the same comfort level. The all Koa model is wonderful sound.

[redi]

Hopefully this isn't blasphemy among other 12 players, but anyone having difficulty playing a 12 might consider a new nut and reducing the pair spacing (which increases the between pair spacing) as outlined by GuitarMD. I found this intriguing. And if you DIY it is cheap and easily reversible. If you hire a tech to do it, it still might be relatively cheap and easily reversible.

https://youtu.be/ZjuC2NpXB9U?si=fzKTmDbnc8O906tn

My fingers are big-ish and a too-narrow 12-string neck with tradition string spacing does not leave much space and can cause me to mute some fingerings.

I fabricated a bone nut this weekend using the .028 inter-pair spacing from the video and it worked out great - cost pennies and some time as most of the fabricating work was done with simple hand tools the old fashioned way . Makes a 12-string much easier to play cleanly.

[mike in lytle]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Hi Folks,

My internet search and in-hand testing suggest the Martin HD12-28 is a good solution. But, it's a little expensive. And, it sounds like a D-28 with more strings. I was hoping for something a little different. I did try and find a used D12-35, in good condition, but they are pretty rare now. I am open to other brands. A Larrivee L-09-12? Something imported that sounds great and is less expensive?

Larrivee 12 strings are great, I have had both an L-02-12 and L-03R-12. The L-02 (hog) is bright. The L-03R (rosewood) was just perfect. I had both setup so low I could do a full F bar chord with no effort.
I am normally a mahogany person, but the Larrivee 12 string in RW was just sublime. I've had a D-12-20, D-12-28, and a Guild, but I don't remember the model. Also a couple Yamahas over the years. All good. Currently still playing a Daion Gazelle.
Mike

[martingitdave]

To those asking about the Guild F-512, the neck was the maximum size I could play prior to chemo treatments. The nerve damage in the hands caused by chemo resulted in a combination of loss of sensory control and hand strength. I have been able to recover a lot through time, healing, switching chemo cocktails, physical therapy, changing to lighter strings, and switching to guitar necks that allow me to minimize the amount I need to stretch my fingers while clamping down. At least, to a non-medical person, this is how I read it. I was doing a lot of stuff willy-nilly trying to find the right recipe. Once I got something that worked, I have been trying to stick with it.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Dave,

I'm glad you are feeling some improvement, though I am sorry to hear you could no longer play your Guild F-512 and consequently sold it.

I would think that a Martin HD12-28 or a D12-35 would be just as hard to play as the F-512. I drove 120 miles from my home to Seattle to try out a restored D12-35 in Seattle some years ago and I didn't like the guitar at all. I found it extremely hard to play with a much thicker neck than my Guild F-212 that I was used to.

I'm wondering if one of the smaller Taylor 12-fret 12-strings might work well for you, something like the all-mahogany 562CE. I did a quick search and there are several of these used models up for sale and ~$2K in price. I played one of these in the past and it reminded me of the sound I got from my Guild F-212. And it's easy to play. It's a 12-fret design, a short scale, it looks good, it sounds good.

Here is a demo of the Taylor 562CE:



I hope you keep getting better, Dave. You have had a long journey.

- Glenn

Glenn,

I was hoping you’d chime in. Besides similar taste in the F512, I was hoping you’d have experience with other models. The 212 from Guild was on my list. I had not considered going down in size with Taylor. I was thinking I would need the solid wood x56 models, which are no longer made. But that video does sound very good. I will find one to play. The price is more reasonable.

Also, the advice on the D12-35 is sage. You’ve now saved me from wasting a lot of time running one or more of those down. I like the sound of them, but it needs to be easier to play.

I’ll put hands on a few more this weekend, including the import Guilds.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by mike in lytle

Larrivee 12 strings are great, I have had both an L-02-12 and L-03R-12. The L-02 (hog) is bright. The L-03R (rosewood) was just perfect. I had both setup so low I could do a full F bar chord with no effort.
I am normally a mahogany person, but the Larrivee 12 string in RW was just sublime. I've had a D-12-20, D-12-28, and a Guild, but I don't remember the model. Also a couple Yamahas over the years. All good. Currently still playing a Daion Gazelle.
Mike

Mike, the rosewood Larrivee is high on my list. I expect it to sound great. I’m hoping the neck fits my hands.