Waterloo Price? Opportunism? Fraud? Just high prices?

[Zissou Intern]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

...
In my neck of the woods, the rush on budget acoustics at a shop near me has stopped, expensive acoustics are just sitting there now. Before, people were buying pretty much everything, in a panic. Appears to be over and now they will feel confused, some leave the guitars leaning against the wall, some in the shed and others......sell! Interest rates are climbing here, house sales slowed.....etc

House sales have certainly not slowed in my area, but guitar sales definitely have!

[Dwood11]

Reviving a dead horse but I would like to know everyone’s thoughts now? So far prices have been somewhat reasonable. But I think due to the fact that Collings is making about one Waterloo a month give or take, as time goes on prices will only go up. Especially when people realize just what special instruments these are. Especially the 12 frets. I own 7 of them at this point and will keep adding as time goes on.

Thoughts?

[jontewright]

Prices do seem to have calmed down somewhat which is a good thing imo.
I picked up a tuxedo WL-14x a couple of months back for 1900 Gbp.
What will happen in the future is anyone's guess in this crazy world we all currently live in.

[BluesKing777]

Yep, crazy world for sure.....

January 2018, I was in the guitar shop where the Martin OM I consigned just was not selling..........on the surface a calm and cool BK777 asked the shop owner if I could trade the OM towards that funny guitar that sat there also not selling.....an unwanted Waterloo ladder braced WL-14L that had sat for at least 12 months. I know that cos my beady eyes had been on it! I do think the Waterloos were running out of wind at the time...before Covid did its tricks.

The guy said yes and maybe felt guilty at the price discrepancy AT THE TIME, and also threw in the Hiscox case that fit.

So perhaps a loss on paper but.....the ladder braced Waterloo just cries and sings!

BluesKing777.

[Br1ck]

The market will always decide. These discussions always come down to one thing. The people outraged just don't have the money to buy the market rate. Just get over it. You can work 80 hour weeks and buy that overpriced guitar, or buy a very nice used standard series Martin for $2k. There will be those that will think that outrageous too. This is always a lack of money issue rather than an outrageous price issue. If the price is too high, the folks with the bucks won't buy it and it will sit. Or someone with bucks will buy it, and that becomes part of a new market.

Funny how my $5k guitar, previously thought not worth it, suddenly was when a shop offered me $3k for instruments I was not playing.

Look at all the $65K trucks sitting on lots. They miscalculated people's ability and will to buy. It's not like they are even well built.

[Moldstar]

As Guthrie Trapp says, people are crazier than anything. 7k Waterloo, lol.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

The market will always decide. These discussions always come down to one thing. The people outraged just don't have the money to buy the market rate. Just get over it. You can work 80 hour weeks and buy that overpriced guitar, or buy a very nice used standard series Martin for $2k. There will be those that will think that outrageous too. This is always a lack of money issue rather than an outrageous price issue. If the price is too high, the folks with the bucks won't buy it and it will sit. Or someone with bucks will buy it, and that becomes part of a new market.

Funny how my $5k guitar, previously thought not worth it, suddenly was when a shop offered me $3k for instruments I was not playing.

Look at all the $65K trucks sitting on lots. They miscalculated people's ability and will to buy. It's not like they are even well built.

I'm outraged.....by my lack of ability to get a $5k guitar to sound better than a $500 one! So I'm not too fussed at how expensive a Waterloo is, because I could buy a Recording King and my audience would be non the wiser. And in many respects nor would I personally be any the wiser either.

It is a little "outrageous" that you can so inefficiently copy $15 mass produced guitars from the past and still find a market for them. The guitars the Waterloo range emulate were banged out off a production line and sold through catalogues and general stores - the opposite of a boutique silk purse!!!

I'd quite like the Waterloo archtop though if one fell in my lap! Or perhaps one of the maple flattops....or maybe a mahogany one....or.....

[Silly Moustache]

I see two JK guitars, one in S. Korea, for £2.9k (new)and one in the USA for £3.1k

This model was never popular.

A seller in the UK is selling a Waterloo archtop for £3.9k
Another in Japan selling a WL12 for £4.1k (Japanese sales are always high).

IIRC, Collings aren't building Waterloos currently.

To sell an unpopular items in times of minimal supplies, why not put a high price?

A seller can always go down, but not up.

I reckon I could easily get my money back, (I'm not selling).

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

The market will always decide.

Look at all the $65K trucks sitting on lots. They miscalculated people's ability and will to buy.

This ^

I am shocked to see how many Grand Wagoneers I see on the road, though. Those things are expensive.

Trucks are necessary for many blue-collar occupations and affordable options are out there.

I feel blessed to have picked up a new Gibson J-15 for $1300 just before everything got so stupid.

It's a strange new world.

[29er]

I've owned three Waterloo's. A WL-14 (really good) WL-S Deluxe (fantastic) and the keeper, my WL-12. They were all purchased prior to the pandemic so @$1800-$2100. I do miss the Deluxe but would never give what folks are asking today. My WL-12 is simply magic and my two sons will have to fight over it because it's not going anywhere.

[BluesKing777]

This WAS a post of mine from April, 2022...........height of the frenzy!

A couple of years later, things have calmed a bit.

On reflection, I wonder if perhaps the Waterloos were sold a bit cheaply when first released? They were priced around the same as other similar competitor models, but my two Waterloos are such perfect builds, with that extra tweaking costing time and money........maybe they could have been priced a lot higher?

Selfish I know but I have mine!

BluesKing777.

[jontewright]

AFAIK Collings are still producing the Waterloo line. They did strip back production during/post pandemic but they are still knocking out 3 or 4 a month maybe more.

[jodygc50]

I’m enjoying all the Waterloo talk. Last summer I started searching for a WL-14L and learned how rare they are. I literally checked with every dealer in the US (about 50 of them) and got variations of the same story everywhere - “pandemic, supply chain, moved workers over to Collings, 2 year minimum wait on a new order, try an Iris, etc.”. I lucked across one at the Chicago Music Exchange - excellent condition - and bought it for $2,900. I thought I was overpaying but it looks like that was fair market. My previous everyday guitar was a M 000-28 EC and the poor thing has been very lonely since the Waterloo arrived. Love that guitar! I play FS blues and it’s just got THE sound!

[Woolbury]

I'm not seeing any $7500 listings in the Reverb link you posted. I see two WL-X's listed for about $3k, I paid $1900 for mine in 2019. I think that's a fairly reasonable jump for a popular guitar thats no longer made. At $3k, I'd be playing them next to similarly priced Atkins and Iris's and see which I preferred. Agreed, the couple priced at $5500 are out of the ballpark and don't see how those will move when there are quite a few available between $3-4K. Still love my Waterloo and so glad I scored when I did, but I go through more sets of strings on it than any of my guitars trying to get just little more juice out of it. Its a niche guitar IMO, but as a finger style blues guy, it fits right in.

[jodygc50]

Woolbury - I like your stage of guitars. Not to hijack the thread, what strings did you end with for the Waterloo? Thx