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#1
03-31-2024, 09:05 PM
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Good budget Auditorium 12 string?
Does such a beast exist? My son is 12 and proving to be a bit of a prodigy 8 months into his guitar playing and he wants a 12 string. I have a dread 12 string now, but he says it is hard to play. He is good enough to deserve some money spent, and he is also practicing a lot, but I don't want to spend more than $400-$500 if he isn't going to enjoy it.
He want something with a smaller body, and many don't exist. Some contenders: Alvarez AG610Ce Dean Exotic AXS KOA (almost no reviews out there, but affordable) Breedlove pursuit or discovery Older Breedlove Cheap D'angelico Premier 12 string Is it worth putting out a WTB here on the classfieds?
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Brian 2002 710CE 2005 Alhambra A-1 Steel String (German Spruce/Mahogany auditorium all solid) 
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#2
03-31-2024, 09:47 PM
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Well, it's up to you if you want to spend the $$$ on him... truth is, ANY 12 string is going to be "hard to play" when compared to a 6 string, so keep that in mind.
12 strings are different animals - lots more stress on the top and bridge and neck. I would be wary of all on your list save the Breedlove and the Alvarez models. I don't know if Breedlove makes a "Discovery" 12 string model, although I've seen a few of their less expensive 12 strings that were really nice. Can't remember which name they went by (Breedlove is notorious for changing nomenclature and confusing EVERYONE with those changes!) I think you're going to have to go up in your price range slightly - say $600-$800 - to find something worth buying. Don't forget, you will also have to have the guitar set-up correctly once you get it; without that, the chances are very good that it will be quite difficult to play.
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"Home is where I hang my hat, but home is so much more than that. Home is where the ones and the things I hold dear are near... And I always find my way back home." "Home" (working title) J.S, Sherman
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#3
03-31-2024, 11:25 PM
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Brian 710CE,
Is your dread 12 well set up ? What is the brand and nut/neck width ? What is it tuned to ? Standard, or lower ? Why does He find it hard to play ? Do You find it hard to play ? If he is a natural at guitar, then as a parent and grandparent myself, I think music should be encouraged. Armed with answers to the above questions, you will hopefully be able to find out what his issue(s) are with your 12 string, and work from that accordingly. If it is the nut/neck width, then skinnier necks might be harder to fret and play. If it is the body size, accomodations may be an issue. And a guitar testing trip might be in order. And fun for both of you. If he is still growing and the size of yours is a main issue, maybe re-visiting this topic often as he grows may be an answer too. Notes: I tune mine down a semi-tone to D#. Besides (and/or because of) less tension, they are slightly easier to play and also sound better. All 4 of mine are 1+7/8" nut/neck width. Two Taylors and two Guilds. All Jumboes or larger. Epiphone makes a budget Jumbo model, but it also has a 1+7/8" nut/neck width. Biggest problem with budget 12 strings is they aren't as well made as their more expensive brethren, but Epiphone and Guild both make a Jumbo 12 string in a budget range. The Epiphone 12 may only be available at Guitar Center. I find that Dread and especially Jumbo sizes work best with 12 strings. Taylor used to make an almost budget 12 string Dread with a slightly skinnier neck, maybe a 160 model I think it was. Might be cheaper/affordable used. I recommend getting a chromatic tuner for him to use with a 12 string. Good luck and good hunting. Don .
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*The Heard: 85 Gibson J-200 sitka/rosewood Jumbo 99 Taylor 355 sitka/sapele 12 string Jmbo 06 Alvarez AJ60S englmn/mpl lam med Jmbo 14 Taylor 818e sitka/rosewood Grand Orchestra 05 Taylor 512ce L10 all mahogany Grand Concert 09 Taylor all walnut Jmbo 16 Taylor 412e-R sitka/rw GC 16 Taylor 458e-R s/rw 12 string GO 21 Epiphone IBG J-200 sitka/maple Jmbo 22 Guild F-1512 s/rw 12 string Jmbo Last edited by donlyn; 03-31-2024 at 11:28 PM. Reason: proof reading
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#4
04-01-2024, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Bottom line: if he really is that good - and I have no reason to doubt that he is - don't saddle him with something you'll only need to upgrade in a year or two... That said, the Taylor 352ce/362ce get a lot of love among 12-string players looking for something smaller - not cheap at $2399 street (which you could probably negotiate down to around $2K if you're a good haggler), and as with all things Taylor playability won't be an issue: https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/352ce https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/362ce Be aware that a smaller 12-string won't have the bass response of a dread or jumbo - IMO they work better for lead work (think "acoustic Rickenbacker") or for crosspicking/fingerstyle with support from other instruments - which may or may not appeal to either or both of you, so you might want to seek one out before you take the plunge... If you're OK with buying used USA Westerly-built Guild F-112's from the '70s come up for sale every so often: these are more robust sonically and physically (Guilds from this era are built like tanks - and weigh only slightly less  - so you might want to take this into consideration if he's going to be playing standing up) and will get you closer to a "big guitar" tone, but be advised that even with a first-class setup those double truss-rod necks can be a real bear to handle - especially for a younger player with smaller hands. There's also the '60s Gibson B25-12, which with its shorter scale (24.75" vs. 25.6" for the Guild) and more-inviting flat-C neck profile (at least on the ones I've played, as well as my own "Gordon Lightfoot" B45-12 dread) is unquestionably easier to handle, but once again you/he might find the tone somewhat thin and not to your liking; TMK Jim Croce used one on some of his earliest recordings with wife Ingrid and ex-Lightfoot bass player John Stockfish (available on "The Faces I've Been" collection as well as YouTube), so you might want to give these a listen. Finally, while they're no longer fashionable USA-built Ovation deep-body 12's from the '70s-80s can routinely be had for under $1K; although the body width is similar to a dread the waisted design makes them easier to handle for many players, and while they have a unique love-it-or-hate-it tone (I'm one of the former) there are generally no issues with either playability or robustness of construction...Good luck... 
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
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#5
04-01-2024, 01:45 AM
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Good budget Auditorium 12 string?
Don't know if they still offer it, but I think Taylor used to offer a Grand Auditorium 12 string, model # something like 254. 2 = 200 series; 5 = 12 string, and 4 = Grand Auditorium. So 254 may be the model to check out. Used might be the way to go, but not sure of cost these days. Don .
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*The Heard: 85 Gibson J-200 sitka/rosewood Jumbo 99 Taylor 355 sitka/sapele 12 string Jmbo 06 Alvarez AJ60S englmn/mpl lam med Jmbo 14 Taylor 818e sitka/rosewood Grand Orchestra 05 Taylor 512ce L10 all mahogany Grand Concert 09 Taylor all walnut Jmbo 16 Taylor 412e-R sitka/rw GC 16 Taylor 458e-R s/rw 12 string GO 21 Epiphone IBG J-200 sitka/maple Jmbo 22 Guild F-1512 s/rw 12 string Jmbo
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#6
04-02-2024, 01:55 PM
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Thanks, everyone for the replies and advice. To answer a few questions:
1. He is not a prodigy, but he is practicing quite a bit, and getting pretty good, especially for a 12 year old who has only played 7 or 8 months. 2. He isn't hurting for nice guitars to play. He has a 7/8 scale electric, and a very nice Yamaha FS800 acoustic that are his guitars. He also has access to mine, including multiple nice all solid instruments. Regarding the 12 string, I look at it as more of a "novelty" instrument as opposed to an everyday primary instrument. If I was dropping $2k, I would probably put that towards a nice acoustic 6 string that he would get more use from. I am looking for that sweet spot of playability and quality, but also realizing this won't likely be a primary instrument. Ones I have seen that look good are: Alvarez AG610ce 12 looks really nice for the money, but hard to find Breedlove Atlas Breedlove Discovery ?
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Brian 2002 710CE 2005 Alhambra A-1 Steel String (German Spruce/Mahogany auditorium all solid)
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#7
04-02-2024, 04:27 PM
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Hi Brian" I just purchased an Ibanez 12 string AEG 5012. Its slim and more like a Grand Auditorium body. I ended up trading Yamaha fg 820-12 string dreadnaught for it. Its much better comfort to me than the Yamaha. Action is quite good. Nut width is not as wide. Under 400 $ too. I'm surprised how well this guitar is built. Just might be perfect for your son.
Last edited by slooky; 04-02-2024 at 04:56 PM.
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#8
04-02-2024, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Brian 2002 710CE 2005 Alhambra A-1 Steel String (German Spruce/Mahogany auditorium all solid)
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#9
04-02-2024, 05:00 PM
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How about starting on an 8 string?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ar-shadowburst I own one of these guitars and find it very versatile. It has a 1 3/4' nut so it is easy to fret. The octave D and G strings give this guitar a wonderful 12 string shimmer. The 1 3/4" nut makes it play like a 6 string. I tune mine down 1/2 step to D#, which adds to the guitars depth and makes it easier easier to fret. It is on sale right now, making it a great value.
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Happiness Is A New Set Of Strings L-20A
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#10
04-02-2024, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
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#11
04-02-2024, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Brian 2002 710CE 2005 Alhambra A-1 Steel String (German Spruce/Mahogany auditorium all solid)
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#12
04-02-2024, 07:19 PM
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Naa...get'em a yammie
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------- I dunno if it's too big for him, but get him a Yamaha FG-820 12 string. Bought mine last December. after set up, it was easy to play. It' hard for me to put down. Its well within your budget parameters (I paid under $400 for mine.) And one other thing...it is a VERY WELL MADE guitar! Last edited by 12FanMan; 04-02-2024 at 07:27 PM. Reason: add
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#13
04-02-2024, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Brian 2002 710CE 2005 Alhambra A-1 Steel String (German Spruce/Mahogany auditorium all solid)
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#14
04-02-2024, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
I like mine a lot. It is used for some of my assisted living solo shows. The 8 strings fills a room with wonderful music. The 1 3/4" nut is very easy to fret. The only set back that I know of is that you have to buy 2 single unwound strings when you change strings. I change the 2 octave every other string change. I wish they were around more places to try out. I think that a lot of people will like them if they can play one.
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Happiness Is A New Set Of Strings L-20A
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#15
04-02-2024, 08:51 PM
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In that price range the Breedlove and Alvarez will provide a good value. 12 string is a bit of a niche instrument for a lot of players. Many of us play our 12 string guitars every day. Others buy them as a novelty and the novelty wears off. Maybe your 12 string dreadnought needs a good setup, or is it just physically to large for him to play?
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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