Now that almost all of the Taylor guitars are equipped with V-Class bracing, . . .

[TedBPhx]

Wasn’t interested in Taylor before the V brace. Maybe I’m brainwashed but chords above the 7th fret sound better than on most other acoustic guitars I’ve played.

[unkovitrix]

I thought my 2015 612CE 12-Fret and 2016 912CE 12 Fret had V-Class bracing. But the bracing looks a little different from what I see in pics on the Taylor website, etc.

I've got three (horizontal) braces going diagonally across the backs, but their positions seem different, relative to the sound hole, compared with web pics.

[TwangGang]

Originally Posted by zmf

Promised myself I was done with discussions of V bracing, but I have to ask how bracing can make any note more "in tune"?

There are strings of a given length stretched over frets placed at given intervals. You press the string against the fret and pluck the string. Depressing the string may disrupt the tuning, but either way, how the guitar is braced will not have an effect.

Am I missing something?

Yes you are missing something. I am not a physicist or luthier but I will do my best. Intonation is the guitar's ability to produce notes with accurate pitch (in tune). But acoustic guitars have imperfect intonation due to 12 tone equal temperament tuning, a system where the 12 notes of an octave are divided into 12 equal parts. The intervals between notes have been slightly modified for the sake of utility. Equal temperament tuning was created centuries ago as a trade off that allows guitars to played in all keys (even though the intonation is slightly off). This as opposed to pure intervals (just intonation) which is mathematically perfect but with a fretted instrument you could only play in one key.

Intonation issues become more problematic when playing chords and several notes are heard together and because the intervals don't have the true pitch they sound off. Like tuning your guitar perfectly with the open strings, then play an E chord and it sounds fine, but when you play a D chord or a G it doesn't sound as in tune.

Intonation has typically been addressed along the fretboard with fret placement, string length and saddle compensation. But it turns out that the way the top moves also has an effect. There is a discrepancy between what the strings are doing in equal temperament tuning and how the top naturally responds. The top wants to use "just intonation" but we are giving it an "equal temperament tuning" interval so there is a conflict. V-class bracing allows the top to vibrate at the same frequency as the strings compared to an X-braced top. It's still not perfect but the discrepancy is lessened and the guitar sounds more in tune (more accurate pitch = better intonation).

[TwangGang]

Originally Posted by unkovitrix

I thought my 2015 612CE 12-Fret and 2016 912CE 12 Fret had V-Class bracing. But the bracing looks a little different from what I see in pics on the Taylor website, etc.

I've got three (horizontal) braces going diagonally across the backs, but their positions seem different, relative to the sound hole, compared with web pics.

V-class bracing was introduced in 2018 so your '15 and '16 guitars would not have it.

[Br1ck]

We are far into the realm of subjectivity here. Old or new, the Taylor tone which to me has too much high end, and the neck which is too flat, has never appealed to me. Those same traits appeal to many. The term V class is marketing pretentiousness. V bracing would do just as well. I'm not buying a Mercedes. As far as intonation, it is dependent on the laws of physics, and a fretted instrument is by nature a compromise. Using the term because they can't come up with a proper explanation, is tomfoolery.

I'm still of the unfounded and unsubstantiated opinion this is all a make the guitar for $20 less, and if it sounds as good but different, our marketing department will handle it.

[vashondan2018]

Have you seen the Pete Thorn video of him demoing 5 Taylors? Worth a look. He's obviously sold on the ones he demos and I've always liked Taylor guitars but the only ones I owned were from the 90's. FWIW, even though I really like their guitars I didn't like one of the ones demoed in the video...

Well I went back to look for the video.

https://youtu.be/BRBj0oPA3-0

[Br1ck]

You do realize Pete Thorn is one of the most well paid YouTubers making product videos, don't you? Advertising dollars are now going to these elite guys. Notice how they are the first to get new product. Not saying he doesn't make good videos, but you are watching a commercial.

[PassingThru]

I've ordered a new guitar and will be parting with my 314ce with X bracing. I'll let you know if X bracing is a deal killer or not. Will most likely list on Reverb.

[Zissou Intern]

Andy Powers did not invent V bracing. It may have been Orville Gibson about 120 years ago. The V pattern (tone bars) has been used in mandolins and arch tops since then. Also despite his claim, Powers did not invent a new body style with the introduction of the Grand Pacific. It's a slope shoulder. That basic body style has been around since 1916 when Martin started building 12 fretters for the Oliver Ditson Company. It is pure marketing hype to take what other companies have been using for over a century, put your spin on it, and then take credit for being a brilliant innovator and inventor.

[nellatrab]

I'm new here and I was intrigued that Taylor is changing their bracing almost throughout it's entire line. Having played several and a/b them in many instances since released.
I have been looking for a new guitar over many months. Anyway my take is that I am not sure they are better than their previous bracing. I do realize that products marketed for sale need to change to provide new sales and committing themselves that something new is better will certainly help with that whether it's true or not.
Just look at how many products you buy that claim such, "new and better" (like toothpaste) they change almost every month claiming it's the latest new great stuff, it mostly marketing. When a brand has a following they may be careful not to change or claim better, so they just give you less for the same or more money...It would appear that V bracing may be easier to build...dunno?

Sometimes when things are believed to be better and new, the proprietors may truly feel that, but may have trouble proving that, like intonation. Tone of acoustic guitars is so very subjective, what one person likes another finds it unappealing, so the claim that it's better may just not be that. Taylor has been changing since it's inception, always moving forward...much of what they have done has made a better guitar...claiming that they "sound better" than a model made previously can't really stand confidently. Remember the guitar marketed "for more bass" or the R Taylor's....fleeting changes.

The old adage...if it ain't broke why fix it? There are just too many fine guitars that sound stunningly and different with X bracing, all with accurate intonation. Certainly good enough for anyone and everyone. Taylor has always had a glassy, resonate, defined tone, V bracing may further emphasize that tone signature....you be the judge. V bracing has actually been used a hundred+ years ago in archtop F Hole guitars out of necessity.

That flavor is what I hear from Taylor's new V class bracing, different, better, louder, better, more accurate up the neck, you be the judge. I have compared their X braced guitar vs V braced. To me X braced Taylor's just sound more mature and full, even new against new.

So I now one thing for sure, there are many in my area of NC for sale and lightly used V braced Taylor's at greatly reduced prices, but I haven't found one that I had to have thus far. I apologize this is so long and my first reply. I do enjoy all the discussions here...I am still searching

[CollingsPicker]

I have tried to play Taylor guitars, from the 900 series to the 300’s for over a decade. I’ve never kept one very long. I played the new V-class guitars, I believe it was at NAMM ‘16, but felt nothing. At 2019 Winter NAMM I played the new Builder’s Edition guitars and felt a different twinge. It took me a year and a half to remember about them and purchased a 717e from Ted at LA Guitar Sales. What a beast. Nothing like any Taylor I’ve played. Bass to spare, and a completely new guitar build. It took Andy many years to bring Taylor around to his mindset. He changed the bracing but it was on the old guitar designs so (for me) the new bracing did nothing appreciably different. However with the new design built on/around/with the V bracing brings the whole process full circle.

If you haven’t played the new Builder’s Edition guitars you should try one the next time your in the mood for a new guitar. My 717e looks, feels and sounds like a vintage slope-shoulder dread and is stage-ready. Mine even came with a very non-Taylor action and a buzzy saddle. I had the neck reset by a factory authorized warranty neck reset, and full set up and now it plays like a Telecaster.
So to answer the OP’s question, more appreciation now that the BE guitars are out.

[nellatrab]

Originally Posted by CollingsPicker

I have tried to play Taylor guitars, from the 900 series to the 300’s for over a decade. I’ve never kept one very long. I played the new V-class guitars, I believe it was at NAMM ‘16, but felt nothing. At 2019 Winter NAMM I played the new Builder’s Edition guitars and felt a different twinge. It took me a year and a half to remember about them and purchased a 717e from Ted at LA Guitar Sales. What a beast. Nothing like any Taylor I’ve played. Bass to spare, and a completely new guitar build. It took Andy many years to bring Taylor around to his mindset. He changed the bracing but it was on the old guitar designs so (for me) the new bracing did nothing appreciably different. However with the new design built on/around/with the V bracing brings the whole process full circle.

If you haven’t played the new Builder’s Edition guitars you should try one the next time your in the mood for a new guitar. My 717e looks, feels and sounds like a vintage slope-shoulder dread and is stage-ready. Mine even came with a very non-Taylor action and a buzzy saddle. I had the neck reset by a factory authorized warranty neck reset, and full set up and now it plays like a Telecaster.
So to answer the OP’s question, more appreciation now that the BE guitars are out.

Hi.. yes I've played several...nothing much different or better IMO tone wise, I did notice a sustain difference to the point that it got in the way, clashing notes. I did also notice a fairly significant bridge bulge though, not sure what was going on there. The room was at 45% with many other very highend guitars. I will say they all were beautifully built, but all several sounded very much the same from the 300 series up. I'm sure andy will again change things up again in the future designs. You know it's better and new again. BTW there are several used 717e's at GC listed.

[Bob Womack]

I've been a Taylor player for over twenty years before re-calibrating and taking in a Martin OM-28 four months ago. Last weekend I got the chance to try a Taylor 814ce. That was an interesting experience! Bob Taylor has always said that no matter what he did to his designs, they always "came out of the oven" sounding like a Taylor. And now, with Andy Powers at the design helm, Taylor seems to have worked on rounding out the more strident aspects of their guitars. This new one I played had a very pretty top end over a smoother midrange than their previous ones. The rounding was reminiscent of the frequency spectrum effect of a cedar top on a Taylor - less upper mids.

Also, while the classic Taylor sound is heavy on the individual-string definition and less on the chord cohesiveness, Martins are typically oriented quite a bit more towards chord cohesiveness than classic Taylor and a bit less oriented towards individual-string definition. The new 814ce is moving back across the spectrum towards Martin in the chord cohesiveness scale. Still, the Martin OM-28 Standard Reimagined just seems, um... "woodier," for lack of a better description, than old or new Taylors.

However, as far as I am concerned the difference amounts to "horses for courses." I'm not a man who loves Mr. Maggie and hates Mr. Knorr. We can all live together with our different tastes and uses. In fact, some of us, like me, like both sets of tastes.

Bob

[Golffishny]

Their neck is too slim for me and causes my hand to cramp after 15-20 minutes, so I'm out.

[luecack]

I own one of each (214ce and AD27e), and the tonal differences lie more in the spruce/mahogany tops. I will say that with the v-class the notes in the higher register and harmonics are more clear and have enhanced sustain. It is noticeable.

Granted my 214 is about 10 years old at this point, but recently had a neck "reset" (different shims - free of charge courtesy of Taylor's lifetime warranty) and set up at an authorized dealer / service center back in December.

I view "intonation" as accuracy of the notes down the fretboard. As far as that claim goes, they are the same.

to answer your question, I do not care all that much, but the sustain is pretty cool