Approval Period

[SFCRetired]

I would offer a trial period with the following stipulations.

1. If you don't want it, you pay for return shipping.

2. I receive the guitar back prior to a refund and refund only if it arrives back in the same shape I sent it.

I understand why someone would ask for a trial period though. People are not always honest or have the skill set to actually know what kind of shape a guitar is in.

[BradleyS]

It was interesting reading all the replies. Thanks all for your input.
It appears that I have sold my guitar. I did not offer a trial period and the purchaser did not request one.
As the buyer was in good standing on the forum, I did offer to ship with payment made after receiving the guitar and inspection revealed there was no damage during shipment and it was as described.

[fatt-dad]

I always have sold with a trial period. I'm always so happy when the 48 hours are up!

I always talk to the buyer in person (or seller when I'm buying).

I've always been hesitant on returning my purchases in a trial period. I think really it takes more than 48 hrs to, "Know" if something's right. I have bought mandolins that just sound like heck and was unsure whether to return them on that basis! A great builder that made a mandolin that doesn't fit my ear!

The terms of my insurance cover shipping. If there is a trial period, the sale is not consummated until the trial period is done. So, en route, I don't insure. If the deal falls apart, it's still mine, so the return shipping would also not need insurance to the returning party.

It's a contract and requires communication.

f-d

[Rosewood99]

For my higher end guitars that I sell I always give a 24 hour return policy. They pay return shipping.

I want everyone to be happy. If I happen to take a loss so be it. So far no one had asked for a return.

[ewalling]

My feeling is that if we're trading with private individuals, here or anywhere, the bad trading experience is a matter of 'when', not 'if'. Also that a seller asking for an approval period in a trade between private individuals will, in most cases, mean "If I don't like it, I want to return it," which would constitute a bad trading experience for me. I'm not a professional dealer. I work and I have a life to lead. I cannot be spending hours membering around with the same guitar because the buyer would prefer a bit more response from the mids or 6 more overtones on a G chord.

I do not think the buyer who asks for an approval period is really suggesting that if the guitar is not as advertised, that's the only reason he would want to return it. And anyway, a seller who was hiding the fact that there were three dirty great cracks on the top would hardly be likely to offer an approval period. No, I think the buyer is looking for a let-out clause. Who knows if he'll still feel the same way about the guitar once it arrives? Who knows whether he'll still feel it was a good idea to shell out yet another few thousand on yet another guitar that really sounds extremely similar to the six he already has? A professional dealer, I think, has to suck up that form of human frailty because they are, after all, selling stuff that the public can't really know it likes before hearing it. But I think with private individuals it's a different matter.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by ewalling

My feeling is that if we're trading with private individuals, here or anywhere, the bad trading experience is a matter of 'when', not 'if'. Also that a seller asking for an approval period in a trade between private individuals will, in most cases, mean "If I don't like it, I want to return it," which would constitute a bad trading experience for me. I'm not a professional dealer. I work and I have a life to lead. I cannot be spending hours membering around with the same guitar because the buyer would prefer a bit more response from the mids or 6 more overtones on a G chord.

I do not think the buyer who asks for an approval period is really suggesting that if the guitar is not as advertised, that's the only reason he would want to return it. And anyway, a seller who was hiding the fact that there were three dirty great cracks on the top would hardly be likely to offer an approval period. No, I think the buyer is looking for a let-out clause. Who knows if he'll still feel the same way about the guitar once it arrives? Who knows whether he'll still feel it was a good idea to shell out yet another few thousand on yet another guitar that really sounds extremely similar to the six he already has? A professional dealer, I think, has to suck up that form of human frailty because they are, after all, selling stuff that the public can't really know it likes before hearing it. But I think with private individuals it's a different matter.

I agree with everything you're saying, but, if, as an individual, you want to reach people with discretionary income to spend on a hobby who won't buy sight-unseen for the very reasons you mention, you're limiting your potential market, and the cost for that is you're starring in an episode of Guitar Hoarders. If I want to move guitars to discriminating people, I have to compromise and take the risk they'll return the guitar for any reason. I also risk them damaging or over-using the guitar, but negligent/evil people are necessarily included in the group I do want to reach. I also risk shipping one way, never mind two. Buyers (the ones with the money I want) want sellers to take the risk they won't like it, and sellers want people to line up for the risk they won't like the guitar. If you want to sell, you compromise.

That works for me, as a buyer, too. As Ted mentioned, I'm much more willing to pull the trigger on an internet purchase if I know the seller's not going to have a problem if the guitar's just not the one for me. If I see "as is unless not as described," I'll move to the next one.

All of that said, after this thread, I did change my reverb trial period from 7 days to 2.

[pete12string]

I'm a private, individual seller. I provide a complete description that is as accurate as I can make it, including full disclosure of any issues that I know of. I also provide clear photos showing the entire item, with close-ups of any scratches, dings or other issues that may exist. I answer any questions and provide any specific photos that are requested and I'm willing to talk on the phone to a prospective buyer...

I will only accept a return if the item is not as advertised - which has never happened because I provide complete/honest descriptions and clear photos. Never had any problems at all after a sale. If the forum that I am advertising on requires a return period, I will honor that. However, I usually do not advertise on those forums. Not because I am trying to "get over" on someone or sell a defective item, but because I want to avoid those people who get buyer's remorse within 24 to 48 hours. My feedback score is 100% positive and I've been a member for years. When I am buying, I look at how long the seller has been a member of the forum and what their feedback score is. I will only purchase if I am comfortable that the seller is trustworthy.

I certainly understand why a buyer would prefer to have a trial/return period, but as a buyer, I don't expect that as a term of the sale. I would only expect to return an item if, for instance, it had a big scratch or ding and had been described as flawless, or it was otherwise clearly not as described in the ad. A return period may make some buyers more willing to buy sight unseen, but I'm not going to offer that.

[Kupuna50]

I am in favor of the inspection period. Buying a guitar that you have not held nor played is a large risk. Not to mention 'condition', which is sooooo subjective.
As long as the shipping costs agreed upon, it is a win-win for both.

[Silly Moustache]

I would not ship a guitar on approval. i Would (and encourage) prospective buyers to visit me and try out the guitar in my home .. before any cash changes hands.

I also provide GOOD photos and a video if selling on Ebay.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

....... snip ...... If paid by PayPal, I move the money to my bank account before shipping the guitar out. Even if there is a dispute, PayPal cannot touch my bank account. They can only freeze money in their account.

But .....the last tme I sold a guitar paid for by Pay Pal, they "pended the payment for some weeks "in case the buyer discovered a problem" !! - He visited me checked it out for an hour or two and signed a receipt saying he was happy with it.

Beware PayPal.

[ChrisN]

Depends on the venue, for me. I'm selling a guitar now on craigslist, AGF, reverb and ebay. For a reverb sale, I offer a 3 day inspection because I consider most buyers looking for a $1,000+ guitar there to be informed quality people, and I know reverb has my back promptly if there's a problem.

Ebay gives me limited options - "no returns" unless different from advertised, and a 14-day inspection period. No in-between. So for ebay, and its customers and customer service backup reputation, I do not offer a return option.

For craigslist, that deal would go down in person, so no returns.

As for an AGF sale, there's no support backstop as there is with reverb, but if an AGF'er with a good track record of reasonable participation here wanted to return it within 3 days at their expense, I'd do that if the buyer asked for it up front, but I don't offer it in the ad.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by SFCRetired

I would offer a trial period with the following stipulations.
1. If you don't want it, you pay for return shipping.
2. I receive the guitar back prior to a refund and refund only if it arrives back in the same shape I sent it.
......

An old thread resurrected with some new thoughts.

I agree with this, with one exception: Upon safe return, any refund subtracts the original outbound shipping too. You got to test drive the guitar, and I'm letting you back out of the deal. That should not come out of my pocket if you decided to pass. I did exactly this with a new guitar purchase recently. Shipping to me was included in the purchase price from the builder, and when I decided to return it, I insisted that my refund deducted the original $90 shipping from Ireland.

Given all the potential issues with long distance sales, I prefer to sell locally face-to-face even though that severely limits my market. Long distance sales are a last resort, IMO.

[TomB'sox]

OK, I believe this thread has officially run its course.