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Unfortunately waste disposal and stupid humans are opposing forces and the idiots are clearly winning. Too late? Oh yeah. |
#17
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Unless there is an actual $ cost to the people/communities/countries polluting our world there is going to be very slow environmental progress (and a lot more pollution of all types) over time.
That's reality.
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Steve-arino Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937 Fairbanks F20 Rainsong CO-OM1100NST |
#18
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I believe that Mother Earth has tremendous recuperative powers to repair damages to the ecosystem. Remember the oil-eating microbes that emerged from the floor of the Gulf of Mexico to clean up the oil from the Deepwater Horizon disaster? Or how the skies suddenly became clear two weeks after the pandemic lockdown began with the sudden lack of aircraft and automobiles spewing emissions into the air?
I don't have as much faith in the human race take pro-active initiatives to save itself from self destruction. However, I am certain that once we are gone some other form of life will emerge to carry on until the day some five billion years from now that our Sun turns into a red giant star and consumes the Earth. I visited Slab City, CA, yesterday, billed as the last free place on Earth. It is probably best known for Salvation Mountain, a thirty foot tall artificial hill painted with religious slogans on latex paint. It also has a reputation for a lot of other avant-garde art. Let me tell our experience there, for just an hour or so. People who live totally free in an area without rules or laws will trash their own living space. Most of the pictures you see of Slab City are either the mountain or other piece of art (?). Our impression: the place is a garbage dump.
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----------------------------- Jim Adams Collings OM Guild 12 String Mark V Classical Martin Dreadnaught Weber Mandolin |
#19
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We live in a closed system.....like a goldfish in a fishbowl.
Nothing comes in and nothing goes out. We simply transform those materials into other materials temporarily. Those "plastics" were in the ground before, as petroleum products. We didn't "add" nasty chemicals to the soil. We pulled one material out of the ground, transformed it and put it back. The Earth will at some point consume all those things back again. Whether it is in mankind's existence or not is an unknown. I hate littering. But what's the difference between throwing a piece of garbage on the ground or throwing it on the ground at a dump? It's all the same to the Earth. Actually it might be worse for the Earth lumping it all together and it could take longer to decompose and "revert". But we humans like it nice and hidden so we lump all the trash in one convenient out of site location called a dump. The only true and real way to address such a problem is to package less and consume less. 99% of what we dispose is not goods but the packaging that goods come in.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240 |
#20
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I can't really make sense out of that coming from owning recycling firms, one of the people tasked with the matter for years by a city council, and managing infrastructure in an enterprise where we are extremely focused on all the negative exertnalities of our being in the food business. It is even harder to believe when we are home owners in two very different areas. We see the differences and results. In our other location any trash collection, recycling, and sewage/septic has reverted to the minimum state and federal requirements. Far too many just burn and litter now. The CAFO operations are managed much differently on a by county difference. Where that got or stayed lax, well drilling has had to go up to 100-200 ft. Are you also talking about a different country or continent? I want to stay from breaking any rules here but for my country (US) oil production has only increased significantly in recent years with most stuff/talk/policy/change about making sure we have it for where really needed - sustaining ammonia production for ag, pharma, cement making etc..... I have a really strong be independent and like markets side so would appreciate knowing where a truly hands off approach has worked for what most consider public goods problems.
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ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ |
#21
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By our main home most of the municipalities have chosen to still recycle, and most of the CAFOs now use two manure digesters (below). It took decades of planning but now we have watersheds running clear, and some of the new subdivisions and exurb sorts of places have less trash. The farms that have gotten on board are much cleaned up too. They've found it is all really good business.
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ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ |
#22
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Just a little. |
#23
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Mother Earth will take of things itself. She’s been through 5 cataclysmic events in 4 billion years where each time life on was nearly completely eliminated. It will happen again. Look at how much damage humans have done to earth in the past 150 years. We know better but choose to do what is easy and cheap. Just how it is.
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#24
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Amazing. Not well-reported, either. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#25
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We have added 60% to the world population since '91 though.
I believe that will have an effect as well. As David Wilcox said "if we aren't careful, we'll get right where we are headed"
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"One small heart, and a great big soul that's driving" |
#26
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#27
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https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2309822 (no, I don't have a way around the paywall but maybe on of the authors has a reprint available online.)
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I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am. Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?) Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022) Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017) |
#28
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That is not the specific plastics problem where that is showing up in unrelated discoveries. Moving from sky to below.... Tangents from the problems from CAFOs in wells in our state are yielding info that is not good. Long after start of the rust belt and other business changes have found more than the PFAS problems. The plastics are getting in aquifers. In addition to the "forever" or PFAS, microplastics from films, mulch and sewage plant effluence. The institution with shooting rage were I'm a retired board member had $200,000+ higher costs to drill two new wells because that went into a 2nd layer of rock where the aquifer is still clean water plus enough. What a shocker that we had to take such steps for clean water without fecal matter, oil and plastics where for generations you poke a 30-40 ft sand point in the ground or at worst spend an extra $5-6000 for a case well. One of the two new wells was high cap, but the huge cost was depth more than larger casing for one of the two wells. The recent news about the plastics contributing to mortality with plaque got me more frustrated with the shape I see so much of my boomer cohort in. Edit: I wanted to point out neat stuff I've learned from my friend who works in our sewage district. They are and hope to do more removal of plastics but we're also in a prosperous area influenced by one of the country's great universities. There's no will for anything like that were our other home is. It is the opposite as I said in an earlier post. Even where there is will it still needs a prosperous area to fund it.
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ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ |
#29
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"I still wouldn't go swimming in the East River along NYC...but it's better than it used to be."
I grew up in the 60's in a Bklyn waterfront area on the East River. We swam in it every summer all summer long. Didnt kill me or anybody I know except for Willie when he took a dare and dove off a warehouse on a pier. Cracked his cruller on some floating debris. It was probably the dirtiest its ever been back then. There was no sewer treatment plants in those days, you flushed your toilet right into the river. I credit those days to building the immune system I have today, George Carlin wasnt joking when he said that. |
#30
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Steve-arino Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937 Fairbanks F20 Rainsong CO-OM1100NST |