Strange UPS issue

[El Conquistador]

I purchased a guitar at a guitar show a couple of years ago in the U.S.. It was built by a Canadian luthier. A couple of months ago, I sent it back to the builder to make some repairs. He then contracted with UPS to send it back to me.

Here is where it gets strange. When UPS showed up at my door with the guitar, I was told that they required a check (no cash) for $600, even though the luthier had included the $220 shipping cost in my bill. I objected, but, the poor driver said he could not deliver the guitar without the check. When I asked him to whom the check should be made out , he read off the name of the luthier. I said that was rediculous but he insisted that I give him a check made out to the builder. So, since I wanted the guitar, I wrote him the check.

After he left, I called the luthier who was surprised as I was saying he had never heard of anything like this and would certainly NOT cash the check. A Couple of days later, I checked my bank account, and the check had been cashed. So I called my luthier who said he had never seen the check. So, I looked on my on-line banking and saw that the check had no endorsement, yet it had been cashed. So, I called my bank and they, seeing the same thing, stopped the check.

Today, I got a bill from UPS for the amount.

Do I tell them to take a hike, or just ignore it. Or, am I on the hook?

Steve

[pagedr]

Did the driver or bill sent through the mail say what the $600 is for?

[itscowfun]

I would be sure to call UPS direct through the number on their website to try to sort it out. After the whole "The UPS store is not UPS" stuff, I wouldn't know who to trust.

Definitely need to know what the $600 is for, and if UPS is asking for it, why would the check be made out to the luthier? I am no expert on these issues, but that sounds very fishy to me.

[dilver]

Sounds like somewhere in the process someone checked some sort of “payment on delivery” box and it’s just a screw up in the system. If the seller contracted UPS, he should have to deal with it.

[Racerbob]

Someone isn't telling the truth here.

1) cashed without endorsement, what bank does that ?
2) was it deposited to an account or paid in cash ?

So some suspicious possibilities here

A) luthier denies cashing the check but did in fact cash it
B) someone at UPS is running a scam
C) seems to require "inappropriate handling" by bank employee.

As they say, "more than meets the eye here"

[TTiimm]

UPS offers "Collect on Delivery" within Canada and when someone from Canada ships to the US. It is possible, as @dilver pointed out, that someone checked the wrong box or something like that.

https://www.ups.com/ca/en/shipping/s...added/cod.page

Personally, I would keep notes of everything. Conversations, who said what and when, times/dates, conversation with the luthier, UPS truck number if it can be remembered. Everything, written down.

Cashing checks without physical endorsement on the back is common. Everything is digital.

Some younger people have never written a check and know nothing about how to endorse it. My 20-something children never really deal with checks. I taught them at one point and they dismissed the lesson as a vestige of older times. My daughter got a check from the university, took a photo of the front and uploaded it to her account via an app - no endorsement needed.

Checks can be input into an ATM for deposit without endorsement. I still sign the back and add "For deposit only" + my account number when depositing a check, even at an ATM. If I'm at a branch I put my driver's license on the counter so they can check my signature but the teller never checks.

[El Conquistador]

pagedr:The driver only said he couldn't deliver without the check.

itscowfun: I told the driver that it was crazy to make it out to the builder, but, he had his orders.

dilver: There is no "seller" in this transaction. I sent it to the luthier for repair, and, he sent it back. But I agree, I would think the luthier who shipped it would be getting any kind of bill.

Racerbob: Things that make you go "Hmmm."

TTiimm: Thanks for that info. My bank did suspect the driver running a scam, but, it that is it, why is UPS sending my a bill now?

There is a Customs Invoice on the box stating the the guitar was sent to the builder for repair and is now being shipped back. So, what the what?


Steve

[Brent Hutto]

Brokerage fees and customs duties.

[jazzereh]

My guess would have been brokerage and customs as well but since the guitar was not a 'sale' transaction, I'm thinking that there would have been no customs duties. That amount is very high for brokerage fees so can't be that.

This is all very strange and something 'fishy' is going on. What bank negotiated the cheque? Was it a bank near the luthier? That would point to the luthier getting the cheque. If it was a bank somewhere else, that would point to the driver, or someone at UPS running a scam somehow

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by jazzereh

My guess would have been brokerage and customs as well but since the guitar was not a 'sale' transaction, I'm thinking that there would have been no customs duties. That amount is very high for brokerage fees so can't be that.

This is all very strange and something 'fishy' is going on. What bank negotiated the cheque? Was it a bank near the luthier? That would point to the luthier getting the cheque. If it was a bank somewhere else, that would point to the driver, or someone at UPS running a scam somehow

If the shipper filled out the paperwork incompletely or made a mistake there could easily have been duties and brokerage applied (incorrectly) reflecting the value of the guitar as though it were being sold. That $600 is in the ballpark of what I'd expect in that scenario.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Brokerage fees and customs duties.

If so, incorrectly charged. As I mentioned, there is a Customs label on the guitar clearly stating that it is a return for repair.


Steve

[Maryc-k]

Contact UPS customer service. Tell them that you want an explanation as to what the $600 is for, and tell them you suspect fraud. See what they say.

The no endorsement thing reeks of fraud. All large companies deposit checks through a franking system that endorses the checks. It’s the only way the can track their receivables.

[TTiimm]

Originally Posted by El Conquistador

pagedr:The driver only said he couldn't deliver without the check.

itscowfun: I told the driver that it was crazy to make it out to the builder, but, he had his orders.

dilver: There is no "seller" in this transaction. I sent it to the luthier for repair, and, he sent it back. But I agree, I would think the luthier who shipped it would be getting any kind of bill.

Racerbob: Things that make you go "Hmmm."

TTiimm: Thanks for that info. My bank did suspect the driver running a scam, but, it that is it, why is UPS sending my a bill now?

There is a Customs Invoice on the box stating the the guitar was sent to the builder for repair and is now being shipped back. So, what the what?


Steve

The customs form is likely normal. It lets US and Canadian custom's know that it is not an item being sold and so there are no customs fees levied or charges applied. I shipped an LED light to England for battery replacement and had to write "returning for repair" or something like that on the box so they didn't try to charge customs fees.

I strongly suspect that UPS thinks this is $600 Collect on Delivery. When the check failed to clear they simply followed through and sent you a bill. I also suspect that the luthier did something incorrectly. It might be good to have him check his records and see if he accidentally shipped it COD.

If it isn't resolved or you don't pay, then UPS will send it to collections - internal first and then eventually they will sell the debt to a collections agency. Its worth the effort to try to get it cleared up. Could they refuse to deliver anything to your house until you pay the ransom? I don't know. That would stink.

My first step would be an old fashioned signed business letter requesting detailed information on the nature of the charges. Why are the charges levied and who authorized the charges? I would not dispute the charges, refuse to pay, offer any information about the luthier or come off angry. Be business like, play your cards close to the vest and just ask for more detailed information, that's all. Specifically ask for a reply in writing. A phone call is OK for a $20 charge but $600 is enough for a letter IMO. I'd clearly state that no payment will be made until details can be provided in writing.

They might come back and tell you that the luthier authorized COD. The luthier should make it right at that point.

Sorry, not trying to lecture or tell you what to do. Just offering what I would do.

Let us know and good luck!

[dnf777]

with no expertise, I think I'm smelling a scam here. Do any legit delivery services even have "COD" anymore? And if so, do they accept personal checks upon delivery of goods?

I would start a dialog with a UPS supervisor in written form to protect yourself. That may also yield a resolution.

Second, ask your bank to put a trace on the check, to see WHERE it was cashed. if in proximity to the luthier, he may have scammed you. (I REALLY don't want to believe this option!) If cashed elsewhere or near you, I would think there is a scam inside UPS, or a big mistake. Again, a correspondence with UPS may shed light here. Just smells fishy to me....I haven't heard of COD since ordering SeaMonkeys off the side of cereal boxes in the 70s...
Good luck, and please update. You really got my curiosity on this one!

[The Bard Rocks]

I'd sure as H(eck?) want to find out where the money went. And to have no explanation on why there was a charge in the first place... The driver should have been able to explain that. I'd want his name.... Then to have UPS bill you after you already paid that sum... Put nicely, it is "strange". My bet is that you have a 85.7% chance of losing your money - but hope I'm wrong.

I regularly deposit checks without endorsing them. That's deposit, not cash. You should be able to find out where the money went and, of course, what for. Although the barn door is open and the horse long gone, I would not have given him any money without first calling my luthier, or perhaps his boss. You should never be shipped a guitar without knowing beforehand there was extra money to pay on it at delivery. Suppose you didn't have the $600? Lots of folks don't.

My first reaction was to think the driver was running some sort of scam. Or perhaps someone over him was a participant. Having met so many luthiers who are absolutely sterling people, it is hard for me to look in that direction to pin blame.

Should this turn out to be a fair and normal charge, they should be able to explain it to your satisfaction.