Guild F50 neck joint

davecis · #1 02-11-2024, 12:36 PM

I’m doing a neck reset on a 1976 Guild F50. When I removed the neck, noticed a 3mm gap between the dovetail tenon (extends 14mm) and mortise (17mm deep). The neck fits flush with the body. The sides and bottom of the joint are tight, and the neck fits snug – it’s just that gap at the back. ?? Never seen before – does this make sense to anyone? Might this have been a Guild design for resonance? Did someone muk with this before and remove something – and if so, what? When I set the neck, should I fill this gap – and if so, with what? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Follow up. Cut a 3mm thick piece the shape of the tenon with some walnut on hand and glued it into the mortice. Set the neck, etc.,etc., and all is fine. Why that mortice is 3mm deeper than the tenon is still unclear.

Medford Guitar · #2 03-27-2024, 01:26 PM

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you. I do have a question though. I am going to look at a 1977 D50 for sale. They want $1500 for it. According to the ad, "Has not been played in about 20 years but has been stored with strings loosened in a smoke free home."

I really like the idea of owning a vintage Guild. However, naturally I am apprehensive about purchasing a vintage guitar. I am prepared to bring a 2' straight edge to see how the neck lines up with the bridge (learned about that here on AGF). Was 1977 a good year for Guild manufacturing? Any tips you could offer?

Thank you.

brad4d8 · #3 03-27-2024, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medford Guitar

....I really like the idea of owning a vintage Guild. However, naturally I am apprehensive about purchasing a vintage guitar. I am prepared to bring a 2' straight edge to see how the neck lines up with the bridge (learned about that here on AGF). Was 1977 a good year for Guild manufacturing? Any tips you could offer?

Thank you.

I have three mid-70s Guilds, all are well made (two from '75 one '76). I also used to have a '78 D55 that was also a fine guitar. General consensus among Guild fans is that they have been consistent in quality through all of their different plan locations, although some do have a few qualms about the few years they were in Corona. '77 models were made in Westerly RI.

schoolie · #4 03-27-2024, 02:29 PM

I vote to leave it as is. You might ask on the Let's Talk Guid forum.

JohnFrink1 · #5 03-27-2024, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecis

The sides and bottom of the joint are tight, and the neck fits snug – it’s just that gap at the back. Never seen before – does this make sense to anyone?

Yes, this is normal and necessary for a tapered dovetail guitar neck joint; the critical contact area is the (slightly hollow) face of the heel being pulled against the guitar sides at the neck block, and this contact force is created by the tapered dovetail tenon sliding into the tapered mortise. If the neck tenon were to bottom out against the back of the mortise in the neck block, that would restrict the ability of the tapered surfaces to pull the neck tenon firmly into position. That gap is an important part of the design of the joint.

John Arnold · #6 03-27-2024, 04:23 PM

Most of my resets have been on Martins, which always have the gap. It is essential to facilitate removal of the neck via steam injection.

davecis · #7 04-22-2024, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFrink1

Yes, this is normal and necessary for a tapered dovetail guitar neck joint; the critical contact area is the (slightly hollow) face of the heel being pulled against the guitar sides at the neck block, and this contact force is created by the tapered dovetail tenon sliding into the tapered mortise. If the neck tenon were to bottom out against the back of the mortise in the neck block, that would restrict the ability of the tapered surfaces to pull the neck tenon firmly into position. That gap is an important part of the design of the joint.

Thanks for the reply. Shame on me for filling that void. Chalk it up to inexperience. The good news is that everything is fine – for now. Probably the glue more than fit.

redir · #8 04-25-2024, 10:19 AM

Totally normal and desired actually. If you have ever removed a neck with a perfect fitting dovetail, with no gap, you would very much appreciate that there is a gap there.

The dovetail is a mechanical joint and the area behind it has nothing to do with the integrity of the joint but it helps to get a steaming needle in the gap to remove the neck in the future. So leave it.