Vintage guitar reissues.

[slimey]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand the proliferation of companies producing instruments copying models from the beginning of last century.
Would someone mind explaining to me why this is happening and why these instruments are being marketed at a premium.
Thanks for your help!

[jpnichols]

Most times they're of a high quality than a regular version of the main production guitar. Example would be that most people would prefer a J-45 True Vintage over a standard J-45. Why do they call them Vintage series and not something else like Elite? Marketing would be my guess.

[Wade Hampton]

It's just business. The guitar companies are in business to make and sell guitars, and if they can add some perceived value to a standard model and create customer interest that way, more power to them. As the potential end users it's our own responsibility to sort out whether these "vintage" details add enough value to justify spending the money on these instruments, and naturally that's going to be on an individual, case by case basis. What's important to me might not be important to you, and vice versa.

As for me, once Martin started building some of their guitars with scalloped braces and forward X bracing again, that's about the only "vintage" detail that matters to me from a musical standpoint. So far as I'm concerned, the rest of that stuff is just gingerbread.

But other folks have other priorities, and, again, more power to them.


Wade Hampton Miller

[tpbiii]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand the proliferation of companies producing instruments copying models from the beginning of last century.
Would someone mind explaining to me why this is happening and why these instruments are being marketed at a premium.
Thanks for your help!

Well, it is not really beginning of the last century that is the focus -- it is a period often called the "golden era" -- a period starting in 1929 with Martin's introduction of the 14-fret OM model and ending around WWII. This period saw the introduction of the modern American steel string acoustic guitar, and a large portion of modern guitars are copies of these instruments to some degree.

The original golden era vintage instruments have been highly desired for many decades. The effect took off in the 1970s because of world wide issues with guitar quality, but it also happened earlier and later too. This was basically because many of these old instruments sound really good, and they achieve a sound quality that has never been achieved in new instruments. Why they sound so good is a complex question, but clearly one of the most important factors is that the sound of acoustic instruments generally improves with age -- a well known and understood effect. Other issues may be: design details (the old instruments were very lightly built), materials quality, construction techniques, and craftsmanship -- it is not very clear.

Because of their sound quality, historical importance and scarcity, golden era vintage instruments have become very valuable. Thus, many people cannot reasonably afford them -- but they would love to have one. Manufacturers have tapped into this desire by offering various clones and near clones of the old instruments. Many of these are very expensive too because the cost of the now rare materials and the traditional building techniques is very high.

We love old instruments and have several. These new "clone" instruments are often excellent instruments too, and they will quite probably acquire a wonderful "vintage sound" in time. Of course, that will take a long time -- since we are at retirement age and we acquired our vintage instruments long ago when they were (relatively) cheap, the new instruments do not interest us.

Let's pick,

-Tom

[slimey]

Thanks everyone for the enlightenment. Have fun .

[Acousticado]

I owned a '58 Strat (sunburst, maple neck) from '76 to '02. I sold it on ebay because I'd become much more of an acoustic player and because of the insane value of vintage instruments. I got a pretty good buck for it (ok, best investment I ever made), bought a high-end Taylor acoustic and other gear (and paid some bills), and still wanted a Strat with essentially the same look, feel (particularly, the neck profile) and tone as my '58, so I also bought a '57 RI with the proceeds. I've been quite happy with it. No regrets whatsoever.

[jmjohnson]

tpbii nailed it, but some other things that might add interest...

WW2 caused a shortage of a favorite soundboard material - adirondack spruce. (airplanes)
WW2 caused a shortage of herringbone trim (imported from Germany and otherwise).
Warranty claims due the use of heavier gauge strings (to get more volume) caused an internal strengthening/positioning of bracing (and subsequent change in guitar voicing).
The 1969 ban on a favorite tonewood -Brazilian Rosewood, caused a shortage and huge price increase.

Permanent changes were made in traditional lines because of reasons like these.

When chasing vintage tone, styling, looks, etc, people are willing to pay more to get more...Martin is a master at incrementally charging a bit more to get a bit more.

[silvereagle48]

+1 for wadehampton response

[Birch]

As far as I know, a "lifetime warranty" was offered by Martin and Gibson in their "golden era". This became a bigger liability to them as the century wore on, and golden era instruments aged and deteriorated. In the late 60s both companies became very conscious of those liabilities, and decided to really beef up the structure of their instruments, even though that had been done less radically and incrementally since the 50s.

Then, when the vintage craze hit, baby boomer guitarists/yuppies became exposed to the incredible sounds of some of the classic golden era guitars that had survived the decades, and they wondered why the Martins and Gibsons of the era sounded so different, and to a lot of them, not as good. So the builders decided to raise the bar and build guitars that had at least some commonality with the designs that had so captivated previous generations, and were now bemusing nouveau riche baby boomers and big spending collectors----and for Martin particularly, some of their toughest competition came from their vaunted vintage instruments. So they reprised them---sort of.

[devellis]

I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the OP was referring to reissues of earlier guitars, such as ladder-braced, small body instruments that were quite inexpensive in their day but that have been recreated as considerably better and more costly instruments. The Santa Cruz 1929 series and the new copies of parlor guitars from John How and others are examples.

Some of these new guitars, by all accounts, are made with far better materials and construction than the ones they are copying. What I find a bit more puzzling is that some of the original "oldies" (e.g., old Stellas, Kays, and Harmonys) are now selling for 10 to 20 times what they were originally worth. I guess it's a simple matter of supply and demand, and in some cases, they've been "put right" and may, indeed, be better guitars than they ever were.

[zabdart]

I generally agree with what Wade said above. It's mostly a marketing ploy.
Having said that, I'm awfully glad that Gibson decided to reissue the Advanced Jumbo, and I give thanks that they did every time I play mine. The same holds true for my J-185. On most other Gibson "True Vintage" series, however, I'm not sold... especially with the artist-endorsed models. That's just a ploy to charge more money.
Some of the "True Vintage" models aren't exact copies of the originals anyway. For example, the "True Vintage" model Dove guitar features a more conservative angled X-brace for greater stability and a traditional bone bridge saddle, as opposed to the original bridge with a tune-o-matic bridge with adjustable saddles, for better sound.
Caveat emptor!

[HHP]

They can't win. First buyers want to know "Why can't you build them like you used to?" and now it's "Why do you build them like you used to?"

[Birch]

For example, the "True Vintage" model Dove guitar features a more conservative angled X-brace for greater stability and a traditional bone bridge saddle, as opposed to the original bridge with a tune-o-matic bridge with adjustable saddles, for better sound.

As far as I knew, they never made the Dove part of the True Vintage Series. The TV models, if I'm recalling correctly, were the Hummingbird, J185, J200, J45 /Southern Jumbo.

It's pretty much agreed among Gibsonites that the tune-o-matic bridge was, by and large, a tone killer.