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  #226  
Old 08-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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I do like a 1 11/16 neck and for me my Legacy 1 3/4 is a little too wide. But I don't think that made a difference in their market share. Like or not the 1 3/4 is now the new norm, probably helped much more that it hurt. It is nice to have one of the original factory X's with the 11/16 neck. But the Legacy is the better guitar for my flat picking style.
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  #227  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:34 PM
cke cke is offline
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In the "For What It's Worth" Department, I had a 'Tech Tuesday' and restrung my Cargo. It had Elixir Nanoweb 11's (extra-lights). I put D'Addarrio EJ-17's on it (13-56 medium PB for the uninitiated) and checked the relief and action over 2 days.

Remember, It has NO truss rod. Absolutely NO change.And the action is delightful. I enjoy the warmer less sizzly sound and greater tension, too.
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  #228  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:55 PM
chistrummer chistrummer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revive View Post
How does selling at cost create a loss?
You might want to take a few business classes, or at least do some online research before weighing in on this..
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  #229  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:25 PM
revive revive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petelor View Post
You might want to take a few business classes, or at least do some online research before weighing in on this..
And which business school did you go to ???

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Originally Posted by petelor View Post
Dealers getting shafted is a part of this topic, more so than a truss rod in my opinion. The week after CA shut down, McNicols sold off all of their CA's at cost, and so did a lot of other dealers. Mike only had about fifteen guitars listed so his loss was only about $10,000 but I'm sure it was substantial for Mike..
I thought I asked you nicely. Sorry if my question came across as otherwise. I'm still baffled how selling 15 guitars at cost creates a loss of $10K, unless if his overhead attributed to the 15 CA guitars is $10K (which is not very likely)? By definition, selling at cost = breakeven, i.e. no profit but no loss, either.

Or maybe what you meant by "loss" is really Lost Revenue, not Operating Loss. But again, in business school and throughout my business career, "Loss" always refers to Operating Loss or Net Loss, but never lost revenue.
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  #230  
Old 10-16-2015, 11:01 AM
sirflyguy2000 sirflyguy2000 is offline
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I am intrigued that this discussion ended in 2010. Here we are, 5 years later, and I just pulled up their catalog. NO TRUSSROD! Any comments?
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  #231  
Old 10-17-2015, 12:14 PM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by sirflyguy2000 View Post
I am intrigued that this discussion ended in 2010. Here we are, 5 years later, and I just pulled up their catalog. NO TRUSSROD! Any comments?
Wow, this five year old thread sure brings back some memories.

To CA, it would appear that Peavey did not think an adjustable truss rod was needed. What was needed of course was to make the guitars profitable, so the days of the $799 Cargo RAW, and $999 OX RAW are gone. Perhaps once folks accept the new pricing, Peavey can start thinking about a truss rod.

A lot has happened in the five years since I started this thread. Rainsong introduced two amazing models, the Shorty and the Parlor, a new 12-fret short scale neck option, as well as some new finishes. We now have a take down all carbon fiber travel guitar built in China priced at $1099 with K&K style pickup, the Journey OF660. The designer of the Cargo, Ellis Seal, got together with McPherson Guitars to build a better Cargo, the Kevin Michael travel guitar. And while this new CF travel guitar is better in every way than the Cargo, sadly it needed to come in at a $2200 price tag, which has been a hard sell. I'm told a full size version of this guitar is in the works, but details are very limited.

Besides new shapes and sizes, we have a new material as well. Joe Luttwak, owner and design genius of Blackbird Guitars, introduced a new material he calls Ekoa. The new material sounds so much like wood that it just may be a game changer in the industry. The Clara Uke holds it's own with the best solid wood Ukulelels out there, and the closest tonal comparison we have to the new El Capitan is a Collings MJ. No kidding. Stay tuned to more from Joe.

Sadly Macnichol guitars, a huge advocate of CF guitars has shut down, as did their carbon forum. Mike and I shared a strong passion for carbon guitars, in fact we would send each other our customs for evaluation. I spent a whole afternoon comparing his all unidirectional Jumbo to a standard JM100, and a CO-JM1000, and wrote a review on his forum. His custom Jumbo actually launched the short-lived Rainsong Bluegrass model. I sent Mike our first LA limited, the LA1-LE, which was the first Rainsong to feature a unidirectional top on a hybrid body. After his evaluation Mike sent me an amazing video of the guitar. The LA1-LE launched the Shorty of course, and the rest is history. Mike is a sponsor/member here, so hopefully he will chime in from time to time to share his extensive knowledge.

Oh, and since Larry Pattis was so prominent in this thread, I want to mention that since starting this thread, I got to meet Larry in person at one of his shows. The man is not only a phenomenal guitarist, but a really great guy as well. Looking forward to his next LA show.
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  #232  
Old 10-17-2015, 08:30 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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This thread is SOOOO 2010.......... sorry, had to say it.

FWIW, we have three CF guitars. Rainsong WS-1000, Rainsong PMJ-1000 and a recent Peavey Cargo in gloss blue. None of them have truss rods and none are needed, IMO. I know others will disagree, but I put have used lights and mediums and hybrid light-medium sets on all three guitars, tuned them up and down through several different slack key tunings, and have never perceived any difference in relief or action. These necks just don't move, as far as I can tell or feel.
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  #233  
Old 10-18-2015, 02:57 AM
tdq tdq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
This thread is SOOOO 2010.......... sorry, had to say it. .
and how...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
FWIW, we have three CF guitars. Rainsong WS-1000, Rainsong PMJ-1000 and a recent Peavey Cargo in gloss blue. None of them have truss rods and none are needed, IMO. I know others will disagree, but I put have used lights and mediums and hybrid light-medium sets on all three guitars, tuned them up and down through several different slack key tunings, and have never perceived any difference in relief or action. These necks just don't move, as far as I can tell or feel.
I have to agree. This whole truss rod thing is a storm in a teacup, as far as I'm concerned. I know others like to tweak or like the reassurance of knowing the option is there (and others outright disagree...) But I've had my pre-peavey GX since 2010, used both mediums and lights and never had a problem.
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  #234  
Old 10-18-2015, 06:37 PM
nopicknick nopicknick is offline
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I just recently picked up I'm guessing an early model Legacy.....plays and sounds fantastic.

Last edited by nopicknick; 10-19-2015 at 07:58 PM.
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  #235  
Old 10-19-2015, 06:01 AM
Bluside Bluside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
Wow, this five year old thread sure brings back some memories.

To CA, it would appear that Peavey did not think an adjustable truss rod was needed. What was needed of course was to make the guitars profitable, so the days of the $799 Cargo RAW, and $999 OX RAW are gone. Perhaps once folks accept the new pricing, Peavey can start thinking about a truss rod.

A lot has happened in the five years since I started this thread. Rainsong introduced two amazing models, the Shorty and the Parlor, a new 12-fret short scale neck option, as well as some new finishes. We now have a take down all carbon fiber travel guitar built in China priced at $1099 with K&K style pickup, the Journey OF660. The designer of the Cargo, Ellis Seal, got together with McPherson Guitars to build a better Cargo, the Kevin Michael travel guitar. And while this new CF travel guitar is better in every way than the Cargo, sadly it needed to come in at a $2200 price tag, which has been a hard sell. I'm told a full size version of this guitar is in the works, but details are very limited.

Besides new shapes and sizes, we have a new material as well. Joe Luttwak, owner and design genius of Blackbird Guitars, introduced a new material he calls Ekoa. The new material sounds so much like wood that it just may be a game changer in the industry. The Clara Uke holds it's own with the best solid wood Ukulelels out there, and the closest tonal comparison we have to the new El Capitan is a Collings MJ. No kidding. Stay tuned to more from Joe.

Sadly Macnichol guitars, a huge advocate of CF guitars has shut down, as did their carbon forum. Mike and I shared a strong passion for carbon guitars, in fact we would send each other our customs for evaluation. I spent a whole afternoon comparing his all unidirectional Jumbo to a standard JM100, and a CO-JM1000, and wrote a review on his forum. His custom Jumbo actually launched the short-lived Rainsong Bluegrass model. I sent Mike our first LA limited, the LA1-LE, which was the first Rainsong to feature a unidirectional top on a hybrid body. After his evaluation Mike sent me an amazing video of the guitar. The LA1-LE launched the Shorty of course, and the rest is history. Mike is a sponsor/member here, so hopefully he will chime in from time to time to share his extensive knowledge.

Oh, and since Larry Pattis was so prominent in this thread, I want to mention that since starting this thread, I got to meet Larry in person at one of his shows. The man is not only a phenomenal guitarist, but a really great guy as well. Looking forward to his next LA show.
Very informative post, Ted.

I'm enjoying my Rainsong BI OM very much. Thanks.
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  #236  
Old 10-19-2015, 10:25 AM
tommyld tommyld is offline
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I feel kind of bad about this being resurrected, mostly because I think Peavey is already facing an uphill battle competing against other CF builders, especially with pricing and brand name ("What's that?" / "It's a CA guitar." / "Huh?" / "Composite Acoustics." / "Oh, who makes it?" / "CA Guitars. It's a CA Guitars guitar. It's a Composite Acoustics acoustic." Sigh.)

Between '03 and '09, I owned 9 or so pre-Peavey CAs...partly because I was a fan, and partly because I was chasing perfection. (Some I kept for years, some I sold or returned quickly.) About half, especially earlier models, had neck angle issues or too much relief, especially with heavier strings. (As I understand, pre-Peavey CA's method of getting proper relief was allowing their necks to flex into the correct relief. That almost worked.) But their necks did flex, and I personally think they did too much.

From what I've read, Peavey fixed neck angle with a new machine and made the necks stronger. I can't personally comment on current CAs. Did try a Peavey Cargo that was good.

There are some good pre-Peavey CAs out there, don't get me wrong.

My Emerald has a truss rod, but it's just for adjusting to preference--I've put a variety of string tensions on it without seeing the neck change. That's ideal. I've heard the same about Rainsong, but I haven't experimented with gauges on my Rainsong.
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  #237  
Old 10-19-2015, 10:48 AM
sam.spoons sam.spoons is offline
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Yes, Alastair is documented as saying they discontinued hollow (i.e. no truss rod) mechs because customers wanted the option to adjust neck relief which the two way truss rod in his guitars can do. Like most above I'd say a truss rod is not required in a CF guitar in the same way as in a tone wood guitar but I do like the ability to tweak the setup that my X7's truss rod allows.

My Eastwood Custom was built with a stainless steel bar in place of the truss rod (a bit of an experiment which I was an active party to). Brian did rebuild the neck a few years later to install a truss rod as it was gradually moving backwards. We decided that this was because the ebony FB was changing at a different rate to the maple neck as the guitar aged. It has been fine ever since.
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  #238  
Old 10-19-2015, 11:00 AM
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Acousticado Acousticado is offline
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Originally Posted by sam.spoons View Post
Yes, Alastair is documented as saying they discontinued hollow (i.e. no truss rod) mechs because customers wanted the option to adjust neck relief which the two way truss rod in his guitars can do. Like most above I'd say a truss rod is not required in a CF guitar in the same way as in a tone wood guitar but I do like the ability to tweak the setup that my X7's truss rod allows.
Actually, by reengineering the hollow neck to solid solved two issues for Emerald. As stated, it allowed for a 2-way titanium truss rod, but also eliminated the 'thwack' sound experienced by some players (like me) due to the unwanted tones created by the hollow neck, particularly by those who barefinger pick/strum. Those no use picks don't seem to notice it, or not as much to be a problem. It was very noticeable and annoying to me (and some others as well) particularly on the 6-string neck of my 6/12 Chimaera such that when I brought it to the attention of Alistair, he generously offered to replace the guitar if I was willing to wait until he re-designed with the solid/titanium truss rod neck(s). I took him up on it and the wait was well worth it. Problem solved and I'm happy to be able to tweak the necks should I want to. Real stand-up guy!
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  #239  
Old 10-19-2015, 11:50 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Very informative post, Ted.

I'm enjoying my Rainsong BI OM very much. Thanks.
Thank you, and so glad the Rainsong is working out.
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  #240  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:00 PM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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and how...

I have to agree. This whole truss rod thing is a storm in a teacup, as far as I'm concerned. I know others like to tweak or like the reassurance of knowing the option is there (and others outright disagree...) But I've had my pre-peavey GX since 2010, used both mediums and lights and never had a problem.
People just aren't used to it yet... and acoustic players can greatly resist change. The "no truss rod" method offers you stability. A lot of times people adjust the truss rod when the problem is actually a high/low saddle anyways.

Michael Manring (plays with Don Ross & Andy McKee), who is arguably one of the most talented bass players alive, has been using 3 octave fretless composite necks for years with no truss rod. His action HAS to be perfect. He demands so much from his instrument. He will change tunings over a hundred times in some songs and his necks don't move. He tours and never worries about his necks. Many composite necks do not have truss rods. If the relief is correct, what is there to adjust? String height is adjusted at the saddle.

Here's a ridiculous example of Michael's playing, progressive slapping and tapping while integrating harmonics and re-tuning like crazy and just ... WOW... in someones living-room (???)

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