Tuning Problem

makethemost · #1 04-25-2009, 04:47 PM

Hello there, since purchasing my guitar I've began to notice (it's probably me, ears opening up a bit, etc) that it's difficult to keep my guitar in tune. Maybe I'll get the open strings open (which takes a lot of work), but in some chords I begin to hear the waves or beats associated with 'out of tuneness'. I realize that's just how it's going to be with a fretted instrument, but I think my guitar has it more than others.

I got the guitar 'set-up' a couple months ago, but I didn't tell them anything about a tuning problem, and it seems to persist.

Possibilities:
1. I had an UST installed, which must have raised the height of the saddle. Could this have made it worse?
2. Intonation problems? If I took it to a tech/luthier could they fix it?
3. Me. Maybe my ears just aren't good enough, but it seems to take me a long time to get all strings in tune. It's almost frustrating.

Once again, I thank any brave souls in advance for answering my super long list of questions. I'm only 16, and still learning how to word things!

Tunes · #2 04-25-2009, 05:22 PM

Make,

You should not be having these problems. It should be easy to get your guitar in tune, and it should stay there for at least a full day. Some additional data points may be useful:

1. Are you using a tuner to tune your guitar? You should be using s simple chomatic tuner, either stand alone or clip on. The clips on's are certainly better if there is a lot of background noise or other guitars tuning up - but they tend to be a bit more expensive.
2. Is your guitar kept in the case? Temperature fluctuations over night will cause the guitar to come out of tune. Best to keep it in the case.
3. Are you really banging on the strings? You normally need only strum your guitar "lighty" to get great sound. Really hammering the strings might cause you to come out of tune faster.
4. Strings "professionally" installed? If you strung the guitar yourself, you may not have done it correctly. This could cause strings to come out of tune faster than normal. Look on the web for a good source of information on how to string your guitar properly, or failing that take it to a local store and have them install new strings for you. It ain't that expensive.

Under normal conditions, you should be able to get your guitar in tune easily - like 2 minutes - and it should stay there for at least a full session of playing. Minimal re-tuning is possible each day, but it should be very minor tweaks on one or two strings - not everything.

If this problem persists, there may be something wrong with your guitar - possibly a warped neck. Take it to a reputable guitar store with a "real" luthier in the store, not just some chump who plays with guitars.

brian a. · #3 04-25-2009, 05:27 PM

1) The UST may not be allowing the saddle to sit properly in the slot. Causing the saddle to tilt and effecting intonation.
2) Yes, a good tech/luthier can fix intonation problems and other problems as well.
3) I don't know about your ears

but with a little practice tuning will become easier. That is of course if the guitar is setup and all the components are working properly.

A good electronic tuner can help speed up the tuning process and help train your ear at the same time. They can be had for $30 or less. I like the Intelli Chromatic Tuner IMT-500.

You didn't mention what type of guitar you have. If it is an entry level/inexpensive guitar, they are more difficult to tune, have more intonation issues, cheaper tuners that don't work as well, etc. If it is an intermediate level/mid priced or higher guitar then it shouldn't be having these issues. Either way, bring it back to the shop and seek their professional advice.

makethemost · #4 04-25-2009, 05:36 PM

I've changed strings many times, and I am fairly sure I'm doing it correctly. I've been playing for at least 3 years now, and I'm playing on a fairly high end guitar.

In fact, when they had changed the strings after replacing the pickup I noticed the same problem. The tuning is definitely not lasting for a day, like on some of the other guitars I own or that I've played with. I'll play a song and it might have come out of tune. I'm not really banging on the strings, and most of the time I'm playing with just my fingers.

AndrewG · #5 04-25-2009, 05:43 PM

If you're using a tuner it isn't surprising that your guitar sounds out of tune occasionally. I won't go into too much detail but, because guitars use a compromise tuning system (tempered tuning) it means that it is impossible for it to achieve perfect intonation where every chord, in every key, will be perfectly in tune.
Most guitarists need to 'sweeten' their tuning slightly; in my case it involves slightly flattening the bottom E and the merest touch on the top E and B strings. This will come from experience. The golden rule is if it sounds right, it is right-no matter what your tuner tells you.

AndrewG · #6 04-25-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makethemost

I've changed strings many times, and I am fairly sure I'm doing it correctly. I've been playing for at least 3 years now, and I'm playing on a fairly high end guitar.

In fact, when they had changed the strings after replacing the pickup I noticed the same problem. The tuning is definitely not lasting for a day, like on some of the other guitars I own or that I've played with. I'll play a song and it might have come out of tune. I'm not really banging on the strings, and most of the time I'm playing with just my fingers.

Ok; check that you have stretched the strings properly. If you haven't then the windings around the tuner post can shift. Do this; when you have put new strings on take each in turn and pull it, fairly firmly, upward away from, and parallel to, the fretboard. Retune and repeat until all the slack has been taken out; now your guitar will stay in tune.

makethemost · #7 04-25-2009, 05:50 PM

I'm not using a tuner, I would agree with you on those points. Most of the time I'll tune the A to 440 hz and tune each string to eachother.

Also, something I forgot to mention. When turning the peg for the G string, I'll often hear one or two very audible sounds like the string is skipping and it makes a loud clinking noise.

AndrewG · #8 04-25-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makethemost

I'm not using a tuner, I would agree with you on those points. Most of the time I'll tune the A to 440 hz and tune each string to eachother.

Hmm, *scratches chin thoughtfully*, it can't be the tuners, you're tuning correctly so I'm wondering if perhaps some strings might be binding in the nut and eventually slipping out of tune; or maybe you have too many winds around the tuner post. Two, maximum, are sufficient to avoid slippage.

makethemost · #9 04-25-2009, 06:14 PM

Got a little over two on the G post.

HDsAndGTRs · #10 04-25-2009, 06:44 PM

"I got the guitar 'set-up' a couple months ago, but I didn't tell them anything about a tuning problem, and it seems to persist."

“Also, something I forgot to mention. When turning the peg for the G string, I'll often hear one or two very audible sounds like the string is skipping and it makes a loud clinking noise.”

When you had it setup, did they do anything to the nut slots? I had a very similar problem a while back. Turned out to be the nut slots needed a bit of dressing as they were pinching the strings, especially the wound ones. I could hear it "Ping" while tuning, as you described, and it would go out of tune very soon after being played.

makethemost · #11 04-25-2009, 06:52 PM

You know, they probably didn't, and thinking about it, I realize they performed the set up after they put in the UST. I'm pretty sure those combined are causing a weird tuning thing to be going on.

Thanks a whole bunch!

makethemost · #12 04-25-2009, 08:23 PM

I feel bad about the double post, but I have one last question. Since I know something is wrong that could be fixed, and I have to find a fixer, what should I do? I'm clueless!

Could I call up Martin headquarters, and they point me in the right direction?

__redruM · #13 04-25-2009, 08:39 PM

Maybe you could start with the person that installed the UST installed, and tell them about your issue. Also invest in a tunner. You seem to have tunning down, but at least a tunner could help you quantify the difference. Do the strings go sharp or flat? Which strings?

I've had minor issues with new strings streching over time, and issues with strings sticking a little at the nut. Now I usually strech the strings a bit after installation and I put a bit of graphite in the nut slots and most of my issues go away. The last similar issue I had was with the 1e strings slipping through the tuner. I'd cut it way to close with too few windings and it would slip and be out of tune in a matter of 20 minutes or so. Next time you restring try:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...tringing2.html

Boneyard75 · #14 04-25-2009, 08:44 PM

I have a very inexpensive item to try...It is GraphitALL guitar lube....It is non staining & you should apply it at the nut grooves & the saddle...It will keep you strings from binding if they are a hair too tight at the nut or if your string angle at the nut is a bit too severe...(you really should correct this by either sanding the saddle down or take it to someone who would sand the saddle down for you) ...This stuff is an amazing product & I use it all the time....Here is a link:
http://www.shopatron.com/product/par...56.22543.0.0.0

My local Guitar Center carried it....It is not expensive!

Hope this helps....It did for me! ....Boneyard

Tunes · #15 04-25-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makethemost

I feel bad about the double post, but I have one last question. Since I know something is wrong that could be fixed, and I have to find a fixer, what should I do? I'm clueless!

Could I call up Martin headquarters, and they point me in the right direction?

Yes. I safely assume this is a Martin, and you should not be having these issues with any Martin, even those made in Mexico. Call Martin.

No apologies - this is what these forums are for.