My Hummingbird is not the same after "upgrading" to Bone nut (in a bad way)

[Mak2525]

Originally Posted by zmf

You might want to check out this article on cutting nut slots.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...uts/nuts1.html

Maybe check the angle of the slots with something narrow, and compare with the previous nut if you still have it.

It could be that the slots were not shaped correctly on the new nut.

To a point, I agree everything has some effect on tone - strings, humidity, woods, pick thickness, nut and saddle material, etc. That being said, if a replacement nut in a different material, say Tusq or Corian to bone (all very hard material) is cut the same as the original, the effect on tone is minimal to non existent. Really don't think it would account for the drastic change the OP is reporting. The saddle has a much greater effect on overall tone. Now, if you are changing a wood nut to something like bone, there may be added open string resonance due to the dampening properties of wood.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that just changing to a bone nut (providing the new nut was cut properly and everything else stays the same), would not have much influence on the overall tone of an instrument. Hope that makes sense.

[Dru Edwards]

Perhaps the saddle isn't sanded completely flat.

Do you have the original saddle? Can you put it back in just to see if that makes a positive difference?

[Brucebubs]

Strings may have been loosened and re-tightened several times when setting up the nut - some strings are OK with that but some don't like it - definitely try a fresh set yourself.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by redir

If you play a full F or G bar chord does it sound worse than it did before?

If so then it's got nothing to do with the nut because that would only affect open strings. Anything downstream of the nut is fret wire to the saddle.

If it sounds worse when you play open chords then it *might have something to do with the nut but even that is doubtful.

IF it is playing out of tune then that could have something to do with the nut and perhaps that is what you are hearing? Otherwise your idea of trying new string sets is a good one.

Or to be even more sure, put a capo on the 2nd fret and play it. Your index finger may not take the nut totally out of the picture when you barre, but a good capo will.

I'll bet if you got a new nut and fret work you got new strings. Any chance they put on a different brand/gage/alloy than you had before? Any chance they used round core strings and cut them before putting them on?

[JERZEY]

Originally Posted by davidguevara80

I recently went to my local shop to get a set up (included a fret work and bone nut) on my 1996 Gibson Hummingbird. I must mention that I installed a bone saddle form Bob Colosi and bone pins previously.
I was totally disappointed when I received it back. It doesn't have sustain and sounds dead (imagine a blanket on top of it). I compared it whit another Hummingbird form a fiend and even an Epiphone Masterbuilt Texan from another friend and both sound way better, with more volume and clarity.
I was reading that the not doesn´t affect the tone of the guitar that much, so, I assumed that the change was because of the weather, which changed dramatically where I live (Houston) on those days; so, I used the D'Addario Humidipak Maintain Automatic Humidity Control System. After 4 days, I see no difference.
I will start trying with different Strings, from D'Addario EJ16 PB to Elixirs to see if make a difference. My last option is go back to plastic on the nut, or try Tusq.
I just wanted to report this, maybe someone had the same experience, or someone can give me advice. Thanks!

A bone nut or saddle is not always an upgrade. If the unit was shipped factory with tusq and you install bone nut, saddle and pins on it the result will be lower volume and less sustain just about every time. Some bone nuts and pins are 2-3x the weight of tusq and it can be a drastic change on some guitars.

Past a poorly cut nut and the extra energy you are soaking up because of the bone upgrade its my experience that most older hummingbirds like a bit of relief. Add a bunch of relieve and see if the sound improves.

Honestly it sounds like you have several issues and its time to take the guitar back to the tech and make them do right by you.

[davidguevara80]

It makes sense! Thanks

[SalFromChatham]

I had my trusty war horse Martin D15 in to a shop near me to lower the action, fit a new saddle, clean it and tune it up… check frets… the works.

I think all they did is change strings and lower the saddle. I got it back, the saddle was already low, and now even lower. Poor break angle. The guitar sounded dead. And I think they added relief to the neck to compensate for the saddle being cut too low.

Ooof.

I straightened the neck myself, bought a new saddle from Martin, got it too a more reasonable height, and just like that my old friend returned.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by SalFromChatham

I had my trusty war horse Martin D15 in to a shop near me to lower the action, fit a new saddle, clean it and tune it up… check frets… the works.

I think all they did is change strings and lower the saddle. I got it back, the saddle was already low, and now even lower. Poor break angle. The guitar sounded dead. And I think they added relief to the neck to compensate for the saddle being cut too low.

Ooof.

I straightened the neck myself, bought a new saddle from Martin, got it too a more reasonable height, and just like that my old friend returned.

Sal have you ever considered trading your D15 for a D42 with the 'snowflake' fret markers?


Just kidding Sal.

[SalFromChatham]

Hahahaha. Nice Bruce…

Naaa. This one sticks….

[rampix]

Now Bruce, that one almost went over my head. Then I remembered the FB thread. Good on ya mate!

[hubertus]

As with the saddle, the nut has also be totally flat on the underside and has to make totally contact to the bottom of the nutslot on the neck. Another possibillity is the sort of glue that is used, a soft glue is dampening the resonance.

[davidguevara80]

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I found out that the technician at Guitar Center Central Houston didn’t worked in the frets (they charged for it tough). I totally forgot to inspect the guitar after I received it (I was very distracted with other stuff in my mind). When si called GC they refused to refund anything.
I took the guitar with a real luthier: Jim Hewett @ Southpaw Houston. And he replaced the first five frets installed new bone nut and saddle with a setup for a better price than GC and it sounds beautiful. I was about to type like new, but it sounds better than ever. Check out Jim and his work @ www.hewettguitars.net.

[davenumber2]

Originally Posted by davidguevara80

the technician at Guitar Center

I think we found the problem.

[Dash_Starkiller]

I had a 95 bird that I always thought sounded super bright but then I realized it had a 25.5 scale length, as opposed to the 24.75. Also keep in mind it might have the weird Gibson double truss rod that did in the early 90s. I’ve heard a few horror stories about that.

[Mak2525]

Originally Posted by davidguevara80

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I found out that the technician at Guitar Center Central Houston didn’t worked in the frets (they charged for it tough). I totally forgot to inspect the guitar after I received it (I was very distracted with other stuff in my mind). When si called GC they refused to refund anything.
I took the guitar with a real luthier: Jim Hewett @ Southpaw Houston. And he replaced the first five frets installed new bone nut and saddle with a setup for a better price than GC and it sounds beautiful. I was about to type like new, but it sounds better than ever. Check out Jim and his work @ www.hewettguitars.net.

Glad you were able to get it sorted out - sounds like you found the right person to get it back in shape! Enjoy your new / old friend.