The insanity of the car market....

[rllink]

I guess frugality is not my driving force. Or maybe my frugality is just different. I pay cash because I don't like to pay interest. I buy new and I don't buy the bottom of the line because I plan keep it and to drive it for a long time and I don't intend to drive around saying I wish I had gotten this or I wish I had gotten that. Resale value is not a factor because by the time I sell it I will have driven all the value out of it. I have bought three of my last four vehicles from the same dealership. I buy guitars pretty much the same.

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by rllink

I guess frugality is not my driving force. Or maybe my frugality is just different. I pay cash because I don't like to pay interest. I buy new and I don't buy the bottom of the line because I plan keep it and to drive it for a long time and I don't intend to drive around saying I wish I had gotten this or I wish I had gotten that. Resale value is not a factor because by the time I sell it I will have driven all the value out of it. I have bought three of my last four vehicles from the same dealership. I buy guitars pretty much the same.

This is my position, as well. I've been paying cash for cars for at least 30 years. I buy quality, and I buy new. I sell them when they get to that point in a car's life when maintenance becomes an issue. There's a robust market for used cars, so selling them is never a problem.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

If NOBODY bought a new car for 6 months (zip, zero, none) they would be a lot more accommodating.

I know people who paid ABOVE msrp during covid because they "had to have it now".

Supply / demand.

I say give them 6 months to think about how they treat customers and how to negotiate and they'd be "happy" to sell you a new car.

I'm not sure we'll go back to all the old ways so much or so fast.

If Ford sticks with plans without Stellantis or GM following we will continue with lower dealer inventories. They are now well past being the "big 3" but plenty of recent news still shows they might be the "dumb 3". Just add GM not going forward with CarPlay, Ford running out of badges, plus all the recent recall problems. I sincerely hope they fix those issues.

Consider this. When we shopped around 5 months ago the Subaru/Jeep/Dodge dealer sales manager pointed out they're holding about the same net profit while delivering considerably fewer vehicles. That firm has a lot of market share in the area which might be telling. The VAG and Honda dealer with Acura and all the VAG and BMW brands said they're finding their way in a new order already delivering more EVs than they estimated.

This might not be reflected in a rural area but the dealers said car buying is just different in younger generations. There is broader news to support that. In a sizable family gathering recently the not caring about cars showed in most of the millennial and gen z kids. Most who can afford it don't seem interested in the sprawl lifestyle born from earlier generations.

[llew]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Cars are a cost avoidance for me, so I approve of this thread. .

My strategy is to buy used, clean from Carmax, and we trade in with them. Every time I do the research, their trades and sales prices are to the $$ with my expectations, and their service and support has been excellent. Plus, I can't stand to negotiate with car dealerships... give me a price, and I'll take it or leave it.

I've not purchased from CarMax but did recently sell them two vehicles in less than two weeks. Did very well on both cars and was in and out of there in less than two hours each time. Probably the best experience buying/selling a car I've ever had. Other dealers could learn a lot form the CarMax business model. I wouldn't hesitate to check with them for a good used vehicle but thankfully we are set for the foreseeable future.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

As long as you aren’t borrowing to do the buyout or aren’t paying interest, I can see how that can work well.
As far as brands that hold resale, we have owned Honda’s, Toyota’s and now Kia’s
All of these do quite well in that regard and are generally in demand.
My wife and I adhere to the philosophy of not paying interest to anyone…for anything.
We do use a credit card which is paid in full monthly and we get a cash back bonus on our purchases. Banks don’t like our ilk.
You pay us, we don’t pay you. We’ve spent the last 25 years debt-free, not because we are wealthy, because we lived well within our means.
You’re correct about the CD’s too. Huntington Bank has a 14 month CD that pays 5.18% APY on a minimum investment of $1000. We will soon be turning one over from another bank in May and as of right now, that’s where that one is going.
We “ladder” CD’s and have done so for the last three years since the rates began to climb. At our age, it’s a far better investment than stock market mutual funds.
No ups and downs…just ups.

I don't normally post in this sub-forum anymore, but still read it. I had to respond to this post though. Continually, I read how individual debt has become such a huge problem in the US, so reading from you and a few others here about not carrying debt and living within your means, really makes me feel better that there are still folks like me out there. I learned long ago to pay myself the car payment each month instead of the bank so I would have the money to buy a car when the time came. We paid off our mortgage 10 years early and though we use credit cards, we always have zero balance at the end of the month.

There are a variety of reasons why not everybody can choose to live like this, so I am not faulting anybody who does (and am extra grateful that we can), but I am glad to know that there are others who, given the choice, choose not to carry debt. I have been told by those who work in the credit card business that people like us are called deadbeats because they don't make interest off of us.

As for cars, mine is 23 years old (Toyota Echo) and my wife's is 21 years old (Toyota Sienna). We bought them used and paid cash for them. Mine was 4 years old when I bought it and my wife's was 7 or 8 years old when we bought that. I have never owned a brand new car.

Since we are well into retirement, I probably wouldn't replace my car when it dies, especially since where I live veterans with service connected disability can ride the buses and light rail for free. We would need to replace my wife's van because she can't get around well enough to get on and off buses and light rail.

Tony

[catndahats]

I agree with this regarding cars...I drive old paid for cars and play expensive guitars. Just priorities.

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

Nothing wrong with that!

[Tahitijack]

We purchased my wife's 2017 Rav4 when Toyota offered zero percent financing. We chose 72 months so the monthly was not a big deal. As anyone knows the payments became lower with each passing year. Probably won't be able to do that again.

[Rolph]

My father was a car dealer from the late '40's to the '90's. He had Pontiac, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, and later Mazda dealerships, in Los Angeles and Chicago.
He and his partners came up with the original lease ideas in the early '60's. As a teenager, I asked my father why anyone would buy a lease and not actually own the car? His response was that many affluent Americans want a new car every 9-12 months, primarily to keep up appearances. Still makes no sense to me. I've been driving a Landrover Defender (1997) since 1996. I'd rather have healthy and polite kids than a new car, especially the cars being made today.

[leew3]

I love this forum. In spite of the fact that the OP posed no questions and invited no responses by merely stating his experience, we're on the second page of discussion. Well done AGF!

[catndahats]

You are welcome!

Originally Posted by leew3

I love this forum. In spite of the fact that the OP posed no questions and invited no responses by merely stating his experience, we're on the second page of discussion. Well done AGF!

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Lease cars with very high resale if you don't drive much, keep them super clean and you can actually net some money if you buy it out and resell it yourself and apply it toward the next lease - also paying for them up front saves you 12% or more typically.

Through that process, I ended up getting my Accord for about 180 a month when they were going for 249.

It's simple math to understand the insanity - apples to apples the new car I was considering has apparently gone up 125% on the lease, given the market fluctuations over the last 2 1/2 years.

Which works if you bought a new car 3 years ago, but doesn’t work in today’s market unless the insanity continues. I must say you seem like you cracked the code on how to make money on the most deprecating asset anyone can buy.

[Black Squirrel]

I bought my 2020 Civic Si after my company lease (1k down 270 per month for 36 months). I bought it out for $17K. Current pricing for that model is up at $26,000 with double the mileage as mine. It was a good deal as I put every mile on it, and it kept me out of the car market during this craziness.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by llew

I've not purchased from CarMax but did recently sell them two vehicles in less than two weeks. Did very well on both cars and was in and out of there in less than two hours each time. Probably the best experience buying/selling a car I've ever had. Other dealers could learn a lot form the CarMax business model. I wouldn't hesitate to check with them for a good used vehicle but thankfully we are set for the foreseeable future.

Same. We've traded in four cars and purchased five, so far. All great experiences. The only issue we had was when the salesperson failed to understand that we were buying two cars and only placed one on hold. By the time we returned from the credit union, someone else was buying my wife's car. Carmax made it right and found an identical car in LA and had it shipped up to Sacramento for free. She's had that car for five years, and the only maintenance has been oil changes, an air filter, and tire rotations.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by leew3

I love this forum. In spite of the fact that the OP posed no questions and invited no responses by merely stating his experience, we're on the second page of discussion. Well done AGF!

That's what we're here for, right?

[imwjl]

Okay, maybe there is some insanity in the car market if this is about the way the seemingly X and boomer group here has known it. Getting deeper into today's Wall St. Journal I read about Tesla missing the Shanghai auto show and the show itself. Not long ago it would be hard to imagine US a distant #2 to China for auto sales. The article said well more than 100 new models will be introduced.

I'm not a big Tesla fan but hold bias for US and other brands with a lot of US manufacturing so will be curious to see what is introduced.

Last week one of the car magazines I get listed 25 upcoming vehicles so at some point I might feel like spending on them again.

No matter what I feel it will be a while before I can resume classic bargain shopping.