The “Humidity Thread”

[ALBD]

Question for those who have systems to control humidity in a room or the whole house--

Is this effort and expense being expended for one reason: so that you can leave their guitars out of the case (or a sealed and controlled cabinet)?

[Jengstrom]

I have the opposite problem. My practice room is in my basement. All last winter, the humidity stayed in the low 40's, which was great, but all summer the humidity in my practice room has hovered at or just below 70%. The action on my guitar has gone up significantly. I straightened the neck a bit to coax the action down a little, but it's still high enough that I played my electric most of the summer. I'm looking forward to the furnace running daily so that the humidity will drop again for the winter. The main floor of the house is fine all year.

I think next year I may get a dehumidifier to run in the basement. I'll rig it up to drain by itself so I don't have to empty the bucket all the time.

At least I know my guitars aren't drying out if I leave them in the case for months at a time.

John

[charles Tauber]

I have a humidifier attached to the furnace. It is adequate for humidifying the entire house. As Dbone pointed out, during the coldest times the maximum humidity is governed by condensation on the windows and window frames and is less than ideal, but still adequate.

For my workshop, a two-car garage, I use an old "console" humidifier that I don't think are made or sold anymore. I found it discarded. It consists of a housing in which there is large single water tank on the bottom and a large drum, the bottom 1/4 or so of which sits in the water tank. The drum is covered with a slide-on sleeve that retains water as a motor rotates the drum through the water. A fan, with three speed settings, blows room air over the wet sleeve/drum evaporating water. On the lowest setting, which is what I usually use, it is reasonably quiet, about 60 dB. In the coldest months, it does need to be filled daily - it takes several pails-full of tap water to keep it filled. It has no problem maintaining the 45% humidity that I want. It has a sensor that turns it on and off as necessary and can be set for whatever level one wants. I have never replaced the sleeve on it, nor needed to: I have replaced the fan belt a few times over the years. It has no filters to replace and produces no mineral dust.

When I went to buy a humidifier for my mother's apartment, I found that this type of humidifier doesn't seem to be available anymore. I eventually bought a $250 unit, a "leading" brand, who's build quality and design was literally junk: the unit didn't work out of the box due to a bizarre and poor design feature. I returned it.

Wanting a humidifier that did not require constant replacement of filters, I eventually bought her a Venta. They were nearly unanimously well reviewed, but very expensive - $600 range. It is a dual air cleaner and humidifier. I tested it at home and in her apartment and found it ineffective as either an air cleaner or a humidifier, even in a small room. It also requires the on-going use of purchased liquids to clean and improve its effectiveness - to lower operating costs, many use a little dish detergent, which I tried, but didn't find made significant difference. Not a unit I'd recommend.

Most of the evaporative humidifiers now available seem to rely on the "razor blade model", in which one is constantly buying replacement filters for the humidifier, typically at a cost of $20 or more each. Many of the modern units seem to have very small water reservoirs, which means frequent filling. Filling is made easier, however, since one can remove and take the multiple water bottles in each unit to the tap for filling.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Question for those who have systems to control humidity in a room or the whole house--

Is this effort and expense being expended for one reason: so that you can leave their guitars out of the case (or a sealed and controlled cabinet)?

No. For physical protection, I store guitars in cases.

If I had dedicated, controlled display cases, I'd store them there. If I had a separate, dedicated closed room, I might hang them out of cases.

[Ralph124C41]

I also live in upstate New York and I for one can tell you folks that humidity can be a problem. Just ask my solid-top Alvarez, the one with the repaired crack on the top. Years ago I got lazy and left it on its stand and one morning I heard a "Boing" just like a string had somehow broke. I picked it up and the strings were fine. I played it and it sounded OK ... then I noticed the crack. I took it to my local shop where the guy, without my approval, tried to save me some money I guess and just glued the halves together. They separated and I had to have him redo it (at more cost) and put some cleats in it. I didn't pay to have the top resurfaced and I haven't had any problems since then but it sure does look ugly.

Now I keep my acoustics in their cases with those small D'Addario/Planet Waves soundhole things filled with distilled water. I rent so paying for a whole-home system is out of the question. What I do is run one ... and sometimes two... of those inexpensive warm-mist units and I leave out at least one large jug with water for natural evaporation.

I haven't done that yet but my humidity levels are dropped down slowly but certainly. The room is at 39 percent as I type this so I'm just at the point where I need to set something up.

Btw, as others have said, a hard case is better at controlling humidity than the open weave of a gig bag I've found. I think I'm doing enough right now but I'm always open to other suggestions.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Troll

* For those of you that are in similar situations, what is the most effective full room humidifier that you have been pleased with? What should I avoid? Budget is a consideration, but I would be willing to drop some coin on an extremely effective unit. How much time and maintenance is involved?

The one MUST: get an evaporative humidifier, not ultrasonic. Ultrasonic throws the particulates out into the room along with the water, and an awful white "dust" coats everything.

Everything else is "it depends": on the size of the room, how often you don't mind refilling, how often you don't mind changing wicks, how much tolerance you have for humidity range.

A smaller room is easier to humidify with a smaller unit. A larger unit with bigger tanks needs to be refilled less often. Using distilled water might make the wicks last longer, although their longevity will vary greatly depending on the local water hardness. Some brands/models might be more accurate with the humidity they are set at.

Regarding that last point, most consumer models don't have a very accurate humidstat, if they have one at all. I recommend an external plug-in humidistate, like this, to actually set your desired humidity level.

I use that humidistat along with a Vornado Evap40 in a 10x12 office. I only need to refill one of the 2-gal tanks every few days during dry season.

[Dbone]

As I said in my post above, this comment about the white dust is only true if you run them against manufacturer instructions/recommendations. You need to use distilled water. If you don't, however, he is not wrong. It will be an annoying particulate dust mess.

If I was running it 24/7 the whole distilled water thing would for sure be a pain. Since I'm not it is manageable. I get for other use cases how it would not be.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

The one MUST: get an evaporative humidifier, not ultrasonic. Ultrasonic throws the particulates out into the room along with the water, and an awful white "dust" coats everything.

Everything else is "it depends": on the size of the room, how often you don't mind refilling, how often you don't mind changing wicks, how much tolerance you have for humidity range.

A smaller room is easier to humidify with a smaller unit. A larger unit with bigger tanks needs to be refilled less often. Using distilled water might make the wicks last longer, although their longevity will vary greatly depending on the local water hardness. Some brands/models might be more accurate with the humidity they are set at.

Regarding that last point, most consumer models don't have a very accurate humidstat, if they have one at all. I recommend an external plug-in humidistate, like this, to actually set your desired humidity level.

I use that humidistat along with a Vornado Evap40 in a 10x12 office. I only need to refill one of the 2-gal tanks every few days during dry season.

[BRVC]

Does anyone worry about too much humidity in the air?

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by BRVC

Does anyone worry about too much humidity in the air?

They should if they don't - anything above 55-60 consistently will not bode well, especially with lightly built handmade instruments.

[billsatori]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Question for those who have systems to control humidity in a room or the whole house--

Is this effort and expense being expended for one reason: so that you can leave their guitars out of the case (or a sealed and controlled cabinet)?

I live in Massachusetts and definitely recommend a whole-house humidifier but it is not adequate for keeping guitars out of the case. You can never get the house to 40% RH for the coldest days - there would be condensation on the windows and it would feel like a sauna. I use the Oasis humidifiers in the case.

The reason we installed whole-house humidifier was for comfort. Sleep better without waking up dehydrated. It feels warmer with more humidity. It is also good for house plants and solid wood furniture.

It is a relatively high-maintenance item. We have hard water and I need to use the CLR cleaner to remove mineral deposits and I have to replace the solenoid valve every 3-4 years. You need to change the filter 3-4 times a season.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by BRVC

Does anyone worry about too much humidity in the air?

Yes. That's why guitars are cased and levels are kept consistent. If it's far too high, use dehumidification packs.

[Fretboard Phil]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Question for those who have systems to control humidity in a room or the whole house--

Is this effort and expense being expended for one reason: so that you can leave their guitars out of the case (or a sealed and controlled cabinet)?

Yes. It turns out that it makes the rest of the house more pleasant and makes it feel warmer. I use an Aprilaire humidifier attached to the furnace and run about 50%. I drop it to 40% when it gets below about 10F outside so the windows don't get too much condensation. With Detroit water system water, I have to change the humidifying element every couple of months (10$ Home Depot).
My guitars hang on the walls and stay OK.

[Dbone]

I would not risk putting mould in my house for the sake of a guitar. For an average home setup where someone is trying to consistently achieve ideal RHL for a guitar hanging on a wall, this is exactly what they will be doing over time if they live in Canada or similar.

For what? Because they are too lazy to open a case? Because they want to compete with the guitar museum down the street? Lol

In all seriousness...I get it...Ideally I would do the same...Not for display purposes, but for the convenience side of things. I would love to leave my guitar on the stand all year round.

There is what I want, and then there is reality.

I have already told my wife that when we build our dream retirement home there will be a high end purpose built room that will safely allow me to achieve leaving guitars out with no issues for them or my property....It’s simply not in the cards right now...

When you watch a video on YouTube of Vince Gill (or other star) showing his bazillion dollar guitar collection (which there is a video of)...Does anyone think that he is relying on a basic evaporative humidifier all year round that allows him to achieve a consistent ideal environment at any temperature? Lol...Nah, there is a humidity control system operating there that is commensurate with his investment and goals. Those kinds of setups that you find in professional level music instrument environments are very expensive. This is what is needed for anyone wanting to have their instruments hanging around all year long museum style.

Or you could just move somewhere that naturally allows for all year round music instrument hanging on the wall...clearly that’s an option too ;-0

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Question for those who have systems to control humidity in a room or the whole house--

Is this effort and expense being expended for one reason: so that you can leave their guitars out of the case (or a sealed and controlled cabinet)?

Our place has a whole house humidifier that I think may have been here when we bought it, or we may have had it installed - I honestly don't remember. But guitars would have been the farthest thing from my mind at the time, if we had it installed. Over the past couple of winters, my man-cave / office where I keep and mostly play my guitars would often get down into the 20-25% range, even with the whole house humidifier running. But when we had the system serviced a few weeks ago, it turns out the little metal hose that feeds the thing with water was clogged, so basically we did NOT have a whole house humidifier running the at least a couple of years.

Now it's working, and we've had a couple of nights where the heat ran a good bit and my man-cave stayed up around 45%, which was encouraging. But the test will be when it gets really cold and the heat is blasting all night and I seriously doubt it will make enough difference for me not to case my wooden acoustic. But we should feel the difference and it should at least make it easier for the in-case humidipaks to do their jobs...

-Ray

[Lamenramen]

Can someone tell me what I would need to do if I committed to keeping my guitar in it’s hard case when not in use (in regards to humidity management).
With an average year round humidity of 70% or more, subtropical, do I need a dehumidifier machine or bamboo charcoal type of pack, or do nothing if I keep in the case?