Myth or Fact -- Bigger Guitar Is Louder

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Wow! Anybody have any hard data? For a question of loudness data should make it a cut and dried answer. As far as cutting through a band or a mix or having more bass or mid-range those are different questions. And as far as opinions everybody has one :-)

Opinions is what the OP asked for - please don't be offended that they were offered.

[Jasper64]

For what it is worth my Martin D 35 is as equally loud as my Taylor 418 RW (Jumbo) and not as big!

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

I've only skimmed the thread, so if I repeat something somebody has already said, I apologize.

To begin with, you have to define what you mean by 'louder'. I tend to think of 'loudness', 'volume' and 'projection' as being at least somewhat subjective impressions, and use 'power' to refer to the absolute level of sound output, as measured with a dB meter, for example. It is very difficult to predict how 'loud' something will sound at a given power level in general; you have to go into all sorts of qualifications about the spectrum of the sound, the way t changes over time, and so on.

Assuming you have two guitars of different sizes with the same strings and setup that are equally well made and optimized, the smaller one should put out more power. Basically, the amount of sound a guitar puts out is a function of the ratio of soundboard area to mass; the higher the A/m ratio the more output. Larger soundboards need to be reinforced to be stiff enough to hold up to string tension over the long term, so the A/m ratio tends to be higher for a smaller guitar.

Larger boxes tend to put out more sound in the low frequency range than smaller ones. Low sounds tend to radiate equally in all directions, so that the player hears them as well as anybody. As you go up in frequency guitars tend to become more directional, producing sound off the top and out of the hole that is more directed toward the audience. I have been to listening tests where the folks in the back of the room said a particular instrument was a 'cannon' while folks in front and off to the side thought it was nothing special and the player could barely hear it. Larger boxes tend to sound louder to the player and folks nearby, while smaller ones that produce more of their sound at higher frequencies are often felt to 'project' better to the audience.

Our hearing is much less sensitive to low pitches sounds than high ones: it takes a lot less power for a 'pure' tone to be heard at 1000 Hz than at 100 Hz. Small guitars have an advantage that way as well.

I often wonder if there might be a psychological dimension to this. Big powerful critters tend to make low pitches sounds, so we may associate low tones with power.

Much more could be said, but in the end it all boils down to a debate without agreed definitions; everybody is 'right' in their own terms, and nothing can ever be settled. Perfect for the internet....

^ This begins to address the complexity that underlies the simple question. There is more that can be said....but mostly by way of elaboration or providing examples.

Toby Walker's post (and Silly Mustache's, as well) point to the design intentions and considerations that underlie the simple generalities/stereotypes about bigger size = louder.

[macmanmatty]

Fact I own a db sound level meter I tested the following guitars and came up with following DB's in c weighting for each of them. The guitars were all measured in a studio control room with each guitar the same distance from the meter and in the same location of the room.


Martin sigma dread solid spruce top and laminate mahogany b&s 98 db
Boulder creek dread solid spruce top laminate rosewood sides solid rosewood back metal bracing 96 db
Deadwood on style body black locust b&s hemlock top 93 db
Alvarez dread spruce top solid (I think) mahogany b&s 96 db
Deadwood parlor hemlock top black locust b&s 89 db
Triple 000 Alvarez folk all laminate dao wood 93 db

[JeffreyAK]

Interesting, is that raw sound pressure, or is there a frequency-dependent correction for the human ear response that we'd need to include?

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

Fact I own a db sound level meter I tested the following guitars and came up with following DB's in c weighting for each of them. The guitars were all measured in a studio control room with each guitar the same distance from the meter and in the same location of the room.


Martin sigma dread solid spruce top and laminate mahogany b&s 98 db
Boulder creek dread solid spruce top laminate rosewood sides solid rosewood back metal bracing 96 db
Deadwood on style body black locust b&s hemlock top 93 db
Alvarez dread spruce top solid (I think) mahogany b&s 96 db
Deadwood parlor hemlock top black locust b&s 89 db
Triple 000 Alvarez folk all laminate dao wood 93 db

[macmanmatty]

That is the measurement of sound pressure level in decibels c weighting using a pressure meter. It is what they use to determine how much sound isolation is needed for recording studios. here is a link that explains the weightings https://www.noisemeters.com/help/faq...-weighting.asp

[mickthemiller]

Personally I never take any real notice about the loudness of a guitar. Sweetness of tone, yes but loudness?!!

[Steadfastly]

All things being equal, wood bracing design, etc., etc., larger guitars are louder to a point with perhaps the dreadnaught at the top of the scale. After that, perhaps just the base is more pronounced. I may be wrong and invite any professional criticism of my post.

[jpd]

[Brucebubs]

............. Loud ........................ Louder (and heavy!).......................Quite Loud ....................... Really Loud ....................... Loud Enough

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

Fact I own a db sound level meter I tested the following guitars and came up with following DB's in c weighting for each of them. The guitars were all measured in a studio control room with each guitar the same distance from the meter and in the same location of the room.


Martin sigma dread solid spruce top and laminate mahogany b&s 98 db
Boulder creek dread solid spruce top laminate rosewood sides solid rosewood back metal bracing 96 db
Deadwood on style body black locust b&s hemlock top 93 db
Alvarez dread spruce top solid (I think) mahogany b&s 96 db
Deadwood parlor hemlock top black locust b&s 89 db
Triple 000 Alvarez folk all laminate dao wood 93 db

How did you control the plucking force?

[Christian Reno]

One way to look at it is to take it to the extreme. A ¼ size dread shaped body vs. full size dread. No question the full size will seem louder up close, but what is the measure? The ¼ size may be heard farther away, I can’t know since I have never tested, but you get the idea.

The question ”does size matter?” has been asked of many things. Let’s just say bigger is not always better.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by Christian Reno

The question ”does size matter?” has been asked of many things. Let’s just say bigger is not always better.

That's *not what she said.

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

I invite folks to share their opinions here. Myth or fact?

For me it's a total myth. My little H&D 00sp is the loudest steel string I've ever played including many a Martin, Taylor, H&D,as well as a good many Gibsons, some Collings and Mcpherson too. I have taken my little 00sp into a store with a nice selection of good guitars, and it was louder than anything else in there I played. The other really loud guitar I have is my nylon stringed Córdoba. In my pretty broad experience, guitar size has no correlation to volume whatsoever. It does correlate to some really nice lows, however.

Myth. Most J-200's, one of the largest guitars ever built, don't put out all that much when compared to any of the 00, Deep OO, OOO/OM guitars in my collection.

[Dondoh]

Bass volume and treble volume are different things.
In order to get volume out of a bass note, a great deal more work must be done to get the same perceived volume of a treble note.

One example. If a rock band has a bass player and a guitar player and the band plays at a volume that anyone would consider very loud in a small bar, the bass player probably is playing and amp with at least 300 watts of power. The guitar player can be playing a 50 watt head on his amp. Both are similarly loud, but it take a lot more wattage to drive the long waves necessary for the bass to perceived as loud enough to match the guitar.

Another example. In an orchestra, a tiny violin is often used as a loud solo instrument, to get the perceived volume necessary a double bass viol has to be huge to generate enough power to put the bass notes forward to an audience.

Is the bass louder? Why are violins considered THE solo instrument of the orchestra? Why are there so many more trumpet concertos than tuba concertos? Of course it is easier to get fast, virtuoso lines from a violin, but it also has to do with how a small instrument can do less work, but be perceived by us to be louder.

So for guitars, it is generally best to get a box size and shape that is ideal for the sound and registers you prefer.

More power is necessary to make low sounds appear to be equal in volume.

So the question becomes, what is "loud" to you. Piercing highs are very loud. But are they louder than a consistent fundamentally rich bass? Depends on how you perceive it. More bass tends to require a larger tone generating system be it an amp or a wooden resonating box. But anything can be loud.