Don't let this happen to you!!

[billabong]

Hi everybody from Brisbane Australia. This is my very first post about something vitally important to everyone of us. Forums are not the place for long winded stories, I'll try to be brief.
After "mucking around" with guitars on an off for many years, with my 40th birthday coming up, I finally decided to "get serious". I had only ever played on old beat up toneless guitars, but now I could afford quality tools. I made a commitment to myself to learn properly, there for I could not cop out and blame the quality of my instrument.. You know the deal. Life was great, making good money, driving heavy vehicles, very active physically, but I ALWAYS found time to practice. I ended up with a Maton six string, Yamaha 12 string, and Gibson Les Paul custom for electric blues and rock. Over two years, things I was "unable" to comprehend musically years ago, just all fell into place, even taking very few lessons. (Mistake number one) within 12 months or so my playing exploded out of sight, surprise in not only my friends and family, but myself included!

I buried myself in theory for blues, rock, and general acoustic. Making sure I had every chord and relevant scale down pat (mistake number two)
by now you should no doubt see where this is heading..

Yes, with my 44th birthday on the way, I am now effectively crippled. My hands can no longer do as I ask of them, and as a bonus you can also be rewarded sometimes with horrific pain 24/7. The last two years has been a whirlwind of doctors and specialists (lots of them) even the best neurosurgeon in the country could not help me. Only to be told I have PERMANENT nerve and soft tissue damage.
Please take note people, if you get this, YOUR ENTIRE LIFE WILL BE AFFECTED FOREVER.

No one ever told me how long, or how hard to practice. Let alone posture and warming up! I can now no longer work, I am a single bloke, and things are looking a bit bleak. Bleak began the day I asked my last specialist if I could ever play guitar again. He looked down his nose over his glasses, and with all the compassion of a house brick said "you are one of the worst cases I've seen, you may never work again to support yourself, let alone even think about playing a musical instrument again."

You know what? He was dead right! As of this day I have lost a very good paying job, on days I feel really really good, I will pick up one of my guitars and try to play for only a few minutes, as impossible to believe as this is, within what only feels like minutes, familiar pain sensations come flooding back, just like they have never been anywhere.

Yes, my playing is finished, I will have to sell my beloved guitars, I have heard of amazing recoveries of other players, yet for some reason, good things only seem to happen to the rich and famous.
Sorry this is so long, but please, please do not do what I did, get a teacher, check your posture, check your instrument, but most importantly, be careful of how much time and physical effort you spend on your playing. This affliction is insidious in the fact that you only get very minor symptoms at first which are very easy to shake off, but if you do not listen to your body, it may just cost you everything..
Billabong

[rcemech]

This message was paid for by the Drummers Union!

No seriously, that stinks. Welcome to the forum. I hope you can regain some normality.

Good luck!

[rlouie]

what a sad story billabong.................good luck to you............

[Coolius]

I'm really sorry to hear about these problems. I'll certainly pray that you'll recover over time.

I commend you on your courage and ability to accept what would demolish most other people.

C

[weatherford]

Sorry to hear of your problems! What an incredibly depressing thing to have happen.

Howver, it sounds like you might want to check out the ergonomic guitars that some luthiers are making. There is a thread about them on the 13th fret.

[billabong]

Thanks everyone. I only just posted. This must be a very popular forum! A couple of things I failed to mention, trying to save space, yes I have tried every kind of treatment short of surgery. Unfortunately, it seems surgery does not apply to my condition. In fact, may make it worse.


As a gentle warning, people who are suffering from symptoms are told to immediately seek out a doctor. I am here to tell you, even in this modern age, not one single doctor I saw, was able to help me to any degree. Some even denied I even had a problem! All of them were not supportive of "alternative therapies". However, it was the alternative therapies that help the most! One specialist nearly killed me by prescribing me a nerve pain medication, which alters the entire chemical makeup of your brain. I still suffer side-effects to this day. Conventional medicine cannot help you with this kind of injury. I cannot believe that office workers who suffer from RSI, are still treated like criminals, from employers to the courts. Doctors work well with pain they can see, drug (read mask) or cut out.

So, if things are so bad, how can I type this? Well.. Although incredibly difficult to get along with, Dragon NaturallySpeaking dictation program has been my only lifeline to keep in touch with the world..
peace and a musical life to all,
Billabong

[Broadus]

Welcome to AGF. I must admit that I've never heard of such a thing, though I've heard of some injuries. Nothing, however, like this. Did you practice every waking moment you weren't working? I cannot help but wonder if you had some underlying, perhaps unknown, physiological maladies that the guitar practice obsession basically revealed.

You have my deepest sympathies. Best to you.

Bill

[cotten]

We're glad you've joined us, billabong, if only to share your warning. My heart goes out to you, but my mind would appreciate more information. Can you tell us more about your specific problem, its symptoms and signs, and how it progressed. I'm no doctor, but your condition sounds far worse than what I might expect from too much playing.

Just a thought about your situation, though. Have you considered teaching guitar? You don't have to demonstrate a technique yourself, just to be able to tell someone how to do it, and perhaps play a link to it from online somewhere. It would keep you connected with what you love, and provide some level on income, while providing a needed service. Might be worth thinking about. Good things often come out of the worst of situations.

Wishing you the best,
cotten

[PTL]

Wow, very very sorry to hear this.

That said, having practiced piano for many hours at a time when I was younger, my guess is that most people won't face this problem even with a good bit of practice. For whatever reason, you got hit - truly sorry to hear that.

I do hope you get better after some years off.

PTL

[mhs]

Billabong,

Very sorry to hear of your problems and I can say that its not the first I've heard of this sort of thing. You are pretty short on specifics but it doesn't sound like you ever got a good diagnosis, or if you did, you didn't mention what it was. Of course I have no idea that any doctor you saw ever figured out what was going on.

I had posted here (I think maybe a month back) about some similar problems I had but I knew at least 1/2 of my problems and their names. (Trigger fingers was the thread). Brief recap: At 40 I received the family inheritance of "trigger fingers". We all have the same 7 trigger fingers and got them ~40 years.

Since I'd been playing music nearly nonstop and professionally since I was 15 and am now 56, I managed to add quite a bit of damage since the first symptoms appeared. Like you, I was sure it was the end of the road. From ~Christmas last year to mid January this year I didn't sleep because I couldn't sleep through that much pain in my hands.

I could still function to a degree and I work a regular job, play gigs, etc, but I couldn't play any guitar (unless I wanted to listen to some weirdo screaming, and then realize it was me!). This isn't meant to be a story along the lines of "If I could get out of this mess, so can you", but its also not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not big on giving up on something that has been such a huge part of my life.

Yeah - I practiced way too much (6-8 hours for my 25-30 years as a music pro), and played 3-5 hours a night gigs or concerts or just playing. I made things worse no doubt since the body can probably only handle so much repetitive motion. To a degree, I've paid a price right down the line because I've been through 3 or 4 bouts of tendinitis that required quitting music for a few months for each.

Is there any up side to this? If you don't give up on things, there might be. You don't really know why you were stuck with this mess, and using that bit of knowledge, you don't know whether there's a way out. You just know you haven't yet found it.

After giving up on regular medicine which could only lead to surgery which at the time I really didn't want to think about 7 surgeries and then somehow recovering and somehow playing after all that, I just turned to a lot of changes in how I was living my life.

No huge epiphanies, but since my problem was all centered around inflammation of tendons, I did everything possible that to me concerned that problem. I started exercising (not at a gym, just walking a lot), I are a lot less and better food, and when a friend whose opinion I had some faith in told me to try something I would normally not consider (holistic stuff like glucosamine, or zyflamend), I just shut up and did it.

I made so many changes that I don't know what changed things. I wish I did. Finally I could sleep by mid January so I grabbed a guitar, and still had too much pain, and started rethinking how I held it, how to use leverage in my favor, and how to play in general. I'm 3 or 4 months down the road from that time, and I'm back playing and practicing 90% of how I was before.

Good for me. I wish I could say something like that would work for you, but I can't because I've got no idea. If you message me, I would try to be more precise about things I changed. I play jazz and have since 15, and hope to until I'm dead, well, possibly after as well. I'm not ruling anything out

Sell or don't sell your guitars because that isn't what matters. What matters is not giving up. A break from music might help you (and it does for tendinitis but I don't know about your case).

The not-giving-up part is the thing.

Good luck,

Mick

PS: As it happens: Trigger fingers weren't really the most important thing. My mom is 90, has the same problem, and has played piano professionally all her life and still does. I heard from a lot of nice people on this forum that opted to have surgery and did great with it. In my situation, I could handle the trigger fingers since I could keep them from triggering by changing how much I bent them, but my favoring them caused me to have many other pains in my arms and shoulders and wrists. So I still have trigger fingers and I will consider a surgery (1 at a time), but the bulk of the aggravation is gone for now.

[LindaW]

Have you thought about going down a more naturapathic route? Can't hurt.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by cotten

We're glad you've joined us, billabong, if only to share your warning. My heart goes out to you, but my mind would appreciate more information. Can you tell us more about your specific problem, its symptoms and signs, and how it progressed. I'm no doctor, but your condition sounds far worse than what I might expect from too much playing.

Just a thought about your situation, though. Have you considered teaching guitar? You don't have to demonstrate a technique yourself, just to be able to tell someone how to do it, and perhaps play a link to it from online somewhere. It would keep you connected with what you love, and provide some level on income, while providing a needed service. Might be worth thinking about. Good things often come out of the worst of situations.

Wishing you the best,
cotten

Ditto. To add to cotten's sentiment, within every problem lies an opportunity. You'll find yours and music ins ome form CAN be part of it if you really want it. Draw on your same tenacity to learn to play to find that niche. I can't believe doctors would tell you you'll never be able to work again. There's lots you can do. Go get it, buddy!

[Broadus]

Originally Posted by Papol

Billabong,

Very sorry to hear of your problems and I can say that its not the first I've heard of this sort of thing. You are pretty short on specifics but it doesn't sound like you ever got a good diagnosis, or if you did, you didn't mention what it was. Of course I have no idea that any doctor you saw ever figured out what was going on.

I had posted here (I think maybe a month back) about some similar problems I had but I knew at least 1/2 of my problems and their names. (Trigger fingers was the thread). Brief recap: At 40 I received the family inheritance of "trigger fingers". We all have the same 7 trigger fingers and got them ~40 years.

Since I'd been playing music nearly nonstop and professionally since I was 15 and am now 56, I managed to add quite a bit of damage since the first symptoms appeared. Like you, I was sure it was the end of the road. From ~Christmas last year to mid January this year I didn't sleep because I couldn't sleep through that much pain in my hands.

I could still function to a degree and I work a regular job, play gigs, etc, but I couldn't play any guitar (unless I wanted to listen to some weirdo screaming, and then realize it was me!). This isn't meant to be a story along the lines of "If I could get out of this mess, so can you", but its also not out of the realm of possibility. I'm not big on giving up on something that has been such a huge part of my life.

Yeah - I practiced way too much (6-8 hours for my 25-30 years as a music pro), and played 3-5 hours a night gigs or concerts or just playing. I made things worse no doubt since the body can probably only handle so much repetitive motion. To a degree, I've paid a price right down the line because I've been through 3 or 4 bouts of tendinitis that required quitting music for a few months for each.

Is there any up side to this? If you don't give up on things, there might be. You don't really know why you were stuck with this mess, and using that bit of knowledge, you don't know whether there's a way out. You just know you haven't yet found it.

After giving up on regular medicine which could only lead to surgery which at the time I really didn't want to think about 7 surgeries and then somehow recovering and somehow playing after all that, I just turned to a lot of changes in how I was living my life.

No huge epiphanies, but since my problem was all centered around inflammation of tendons, I did everything possible that to me concerned that problem. I started exercising (not at a gym, just walking a lot), I are a lot less and better food, and when a friend whose opinion I had some faith in told me to try something I would normally not consider (holistic stuff like glucosamine, or zyflamend), I just shut up and did it.

I made so many changes that I don't know what changed things. I wish I did. Finally I could sleep by mid January so I grabbed a guitar, and still had too much pain, and started rethinking how I held it, how to use leverage in my favor, and how to play in general. I'm 3 or 4 months down the road from that time, and I'm back playing and practicing 90% of how I was before.

Good for me. I wish I could say something like that would work for you, but I can't because I've got no idea. If you message me, I would try to be more precise about things I changed. I play jazz and have since 15, and hope to until I'm dead, well, possibly after as well. I'm not ruling anything out

Sell or don't sell your guitars because that isn't what matters. What matters is not giving up. A break from music might help you (and it does for tendinitis but I don't know about your case).

The not-giving-up part is the thing.

Good luck,

Mick

PS: As it happens: Trigger fingers weren't really the most important thing. My mom is 90, has the same problem, and has played piano professionally all her life and still does. I heard from a lot of nice people on this forum that opted to have surgery and did great with it. In my situation, I could handle the trigger fingers since I could keep them from triggering by changing how much I bent them, but my favoring them caused me to have many other pains in my arms and shoulders and wrists. So I still have trigger fingers and I will consider a surgery (1 at a time), but the bulk of the aggravation is gone for now.

Great post. Thanks for sharing. I had missed your initial thread.

Bill

[Bill Cory]

I found a link on Repetive Strain Injury --- and it's related to computers. Since we all use computer and guitars, I though I'd post it. There's info that can be applied to guitar playing, too.

http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html

Billabong -- really sorry to hear of your experience.

Bill

[vti814ce]

Bill,
Did you not feel the pain and numbness in you hands coming on?
It seems like you would have?

Sammy