The ONE to rule them all? Gibson 185/Santa Cruz FS/Froggy Bottom K/Taylor GA?

[gitarro]

I agree that the Santa Cruz FS is the most beautiful acoustic guitar shape ever designed aesthatically speaking.

[PJ Rich]

Thank you to everyone for the thoughtful comments. I really appreciate this Forum as a place to exchange information and wisdom from more experienced folks.

I am relatively new to acoustic guitar, ~2 years. I have played the viola/violin for over 50 years. The process of instrument selection in that world is inexpensive student learning model (factory made), then bespoke instrument (individual luthier made).

The wood selection with viola/violin is also simple; spruce top/maple back and sides. The instrument size conversation is based on your arm length for viola. A "full-size" violin are all the same size. Period.

I'm trying to navigate the acoustic guitar upgrade process which, all of you responders know well is dozens of different size instrument choices, dozens of different wood combination options, and many quality luthiers.

Thanks again for the thoughts and comments helping me understand this fascinating instrument!

[EZYPIKINS]

My J-185ce was the acoustic I chose to be, the last acoustic I'll buy.

Played it both in the studio and on stage for many years.

I love it. The size, the scale, the maple tone, the Aura electronics.

Tic's all my boxes.

Since nobody is content with just one guitar. I have been playing my Martins lately.

Got out the 185 the other day. Wondering why I ever bought the Martin's.

But they are all keepers.

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by PJ Rich

Thank you to everyone for the thoughtful comments. I really appreciate this Forum as a place to exchange information and wisdom from more experienced folks.


Thanks again for the thoughts and comments helping me understand this fascinating instrument!

PJ,

Although I am the least knowledgeable about guitars compared to everyone who has posted, Here is the real scoop!

If you want the best of the best a Torenta Wolszan TW-88 is the way to go. Its shape is similar to a Ryan Cathedral, but she has scooped out the back like the Emerald X-30s, so they are comfortable to play. Owners of the TW-88 have indicated that it sounds like a top of the line Olson on industrial strength steroids.

It has a Brazilian Rosewood body and Sitka spruce top. The bracing is customized to each top panel. To optimize frequency response, Wolfszan puts fine sand on the surface of the panel and runs various frequencies of vibrations through it using a pulse generator. She sands down the areas where the sand does not accumulate. The braces are placed just next to those areas so each guitar is unique. Her guitars are hard to come by. She sells them for $88000. She does not advertise and a Google search will not find her.

Torenta lives illegally in the wilderness area of the White Mountains of New Hampshire. To power her operation, she has managed to rig up a hydroelectric generator from a local waterfall. She hunts for her food. She has made it clear to me that if I try to find her, “she shoots to kill”. Her Brazilian Rosewood is over 100 years old, but according to her was illegally obtained. I guess she means it was stolen. The standard string pins are made of pure ivory, but for an extra $6000 she can make them out of rhinoceros horn. Owners have commented that rhinoceros horn pins provides a subtle sweetness not heard with the standard Ivory pins. The nut is made out of easy to come by walrus tusks. Her aged ebony finger boards come from 300-year-old European furniture pieces that were allegedly stolen from the Louvre. I think the latter is unlikely as I have heard verifiable rumors that they came from the furniture stolen from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

As some if not all of her guitars are illegal, she keeps tabs on their owners. It’s a form of blackmail. No one plays a TW-88 in public, much less post a review. I am certainly not admitting to having one. I know of no person who claims to own one.

To the other posts >>> I laugh at your Froggy’s bottom, I wag my finger at Tom Cruz’s saint, Goodall’s guitars remind me of Gorillas, Gibson guitars are made of animal protein, and everyone knows that Martin guitars are bland.

As far as one guitar ruling all, if her TW-88 doesn’t kill you, Torenta will.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by jseth

Check out a Goodall Concert Jumbo...

This particular shape/size embodies the perfect acoustic for me... can be very responsive, tone spectrum is terrific for single-note lines of any kind, can be played softly or as loud as you want to go with great effect!

James Goodall's Concert Jumbos are nearly other-worldly for all of the above qualities... that's why I own one, and it is my ONLY 6 string acoustic. I'd play it in any setting without a second thought... it'll hang with dreadnoughts at a bluegrass jam or sound lovely playing sensitive fingerstyle arrangements... and anything in between!

Though unfortunately a bit large for me due to a picking hand wrist injury some years ago, in my experience, these Goodalls have an almost magical lush tone quality that stands out to my ears among the crowd.

Tony

[Crosswind]

Originally Posted by jdrnd

PJ,

Although I am the least knowledgeable about guitars compared to everyone who has posted, Here is the real scoop!

If you want the best of the best a Torenta Wolszan TW-88 is the way to go. Its shape is similar to a Ryan Cathedral, but she has scooped out the back like the Emerald X-30s, so they are comfortable to play. Owners of the TW-88 have indicated that it sounds like a top of the line Olson on industrial strength steroids.

It has a Brazilian Rosewood body and Sitka spruce top. The bracing is customized to each top panel. To optimize frequency response, Wolfszan puts fine sand on the surface of the panel and runs various frequencies of vibrations through it using a pulse generator. She sands down the areas where the sand does not accumulate. The braces are placed just next to those areas so each guitar is unique. Her guitars are hard to come by. She sells them for $88000. She does not advertise and a Google search will not find her.

Torenta lives illegally in the wilderness area of the White Mountains of New Hampshire. To power her operation, she has managed to rig up a hydroelectric generator from a local waterfall. She hunts for her food. She has made it clear to me that if I try to find her, “she shoots to kill”. Her Brazilian Rosewood is over 100 years old, but according to her was illegally obtained. I guess she means it was stolen. The standard string pins are made of pure ivory, but for an extra $6000 she can make them out of rhinoceros horn. Owners have commented that rhinoceros horn pins provides a subtle sweetness not heard with the standard Ivory pins. The nut is made out of easy to come by walrus tusks. Her aged ebony finger boards come from 300-year-old European furniture pieces that were allegedly stolen from the Louvre. I think the latter is unlikely as I have heard verifiable rumors that they came from the furniture stolen from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

As some if not all of her guitars are illegal, she keeps tabs on their owners. It’s a form of blackmail. No one plays a TW-88 in public, much less post a review. I am certainly not admitting to having one. I know of no person who claims to own one.

To the other posts >>> I laugh at your Froggy’s bottom, I wag my finger at Tom Cruz’s saint, Goodall’s guitars remind me of Gorillas, Gibson guitars are made of animal protein, and everyone knows that Martin guitars are bland.

As far as one guitar ruling all, if her TW-88 doesn’t kill you, Torenta will.

This legit made me laugh!

[Glennwillow]

I own a Santa Cruz FS (cedar/EIR) and I own a Taylor GA model 514CE from 2002 (cedar/mahogany). These are two of about a dozen acoustic guitars that I own and probably the two that I play the least.

I don't play the Santa Cruz FS much anymore because I have moved away from playing instrumental pieces on the guitar. I enjoy making music with both voice and guitar. Instrumental playing for me is just too much work and not as satisfying in the end as accompanying myself in a song.

The guitar I use the most is probably my Olson SJ (cedar/EIR). It's a great accompaniment guitar.

A guitar that is ideal for instrumental playing may not be all that ideal for accompaniment playing.

So I suppose it depends on what you play. And it also depends on what you like. I like a richer tone, with more bass and depth and I like fat trebles. The Santa Cruz FS is not that guitar. It sounds just right for instrumental pieces and especially in DADGAD. But the Santa Cruz FS is not a good guitar for accompaniment with singing, at least by my reckoning. It's just too thin sounding.

I keep my Taylor 514CE because it's the only guitar I own (outside of my Guild F-512 12-string) that has a pickup system in it. If I play out somewhere, it's a lot easier not to have to mess with a mic for the guitar. I run my 514CE through a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI and then I can add all the depth to the tone that I want. It no longer sounds like a Taylor that way.

Part of what makes the sound are the woods, of course. I have a handmade Gerald Sheppard GA (Italian Spruce/BRW) that sounds dramatically different from my Taylor. Almost the perfect guitar for accompaniment, but maybe a little too much bass for an instrumental guitar. In terms of shape, the GA and the small jumbo are not all that different.

I think the best way to make decisions on what you like in a guitar is to play a whole lot of them. It's hard to make generalizations about what you can expect.

- Glenn

[tadol]

Keep in mind the Santa Cruz FS is essentially a specialized version of their model F, designed and optimized for fingerstyle and altered tunings - we did a podcast with Richard Hoover about the design details and history of the FS. But if you want more versatility (ie, you’re not primarily an altered tuning fingerstyle player) they make the model F in a variety of woods, and can voice it very nicely to meet your desires. I have a few F’s, and an older maple F is my main take-out guitar - maybe not my “best”, but it sure works for me -

[dneal]

I was wondering if others with a lot more experience with this body size and shape, could comment on their experience with this guitar size/shape as the most versatile for finger style, strumming, paired with the voice?

You had the right answer in your original post:

The builders also say that there is no ONE shape that is perfect.

Within the range of "normal" acoustic guitars, there is no one size/shape that's objectively best. There's only personal preference.

I'm trying to navigate the acoustic guitar upgrade process which, all of you responders know well is dozens of different size instrument choices, dozens of different wood combination options, and many quality luthiers.

The best way to navigate is to visit a quality shop and play a lot of guitars from many makers. You'll discover that the conventional wisdom is usually wrong; and that there is an incredible array of tone from many builders at many price points - and in many shapes.

Knowing what part of the world you're in would help in steering you to the closest shop.

[jdrnd]

Originally Posted by Crosswind

This legit made me laugh!

You can't get too serious about guitars. They are supposed to be fun.

[Methos1979]

The OP is onto something with the 'Jumbo' sized guitar. Although I've never owned one for very long (more on that in a minute) I've played a bunch over the years at various higher-end guitar stores and while it was never a size I was looking for, every time I played one I was really impressed with the sound. A few in particular that I remember was a Santa Cruz FS Custom (the short scale made it a custom) with cocobolo back and sides that at the time was quite the guitar, a Goodall Jumbo in Koa and a Collings CJ in maple.

But the one that sticks in my head is a Huss & Dalton MJC in cedar/rosewood that I very briefly owned. I took it in trade for a guitar I was having trouble selling as their values were the same. I had no intention of keeping it as it had a long scale and I prefer short scale. But of course I played it for a few days before posting and selling it pretty quick. The tone that came out of that guitar was something VERY special. Tobey Walker - a regular pro-player that checks in here from time to time - used an MJC as his primary guitar for a long time and raves about them. Add that one to your list.

Although I have not tried the K model, I can say that as an owner of a Froggy Bottom H12, it's the best guitar I've ever played. So that might be the 'one guitar to rule them all'. But it's also a significantly more expensive guitar than many fine guitars on your list. Try them all, if you can find them!