Martin Bracing Question: Adirondack scalloped 1/4" bracing = GE bracing?

[Backpocketnj]

Hi all,

Is Adirondack scalloped 1/4" bracing the same as GE bracing on a Martin? Looking at a custom model 000-18 that seems mostly GE spec. I sold my last actual GE as I don't like the modified V's like I used to and just want the same guitar with a more modest neck. The shop I was speaking with didn't seem to know but they have the guitar in used and don't usually carry Martins it seems.

The shop has the specs sheet so I can ask more specific questions if anyone knows what I should be asking about.

Thanks!

[jmhill]

Edit: apologies, I mis-read your post.

On most of the GE guitars I've seen that have GE bracing, the spec sheet will say "GE/Golden Era Bracing" somewhere.
For the 2 GE's that I have, the spec sheets say "Scalloped - 1/4" (Adirondack)(Golden Era)

Cheers

[sinistral]

In the section of the spec sheet for the top, the line item for “Bracing Pattern Number, Top” will have some indication. For Authentic bracing, I have a spec sheet that reads: “ Authentic 00014F 33A - 1/4".”

[Biosphere]

No, you can get standard forward shifted scalloped ("Vintage") bracing that is 1/4". It's something you can specify in the custom shop with any sort of bracing you can get in the custom shop, whether straight, standard scalloped, or GE bracing.

[sinistral]

Note too that the standard width for the main braces on a 000-18 is 1/4” (and the OM-28), whereas the width of the main braces on a 000-28 is 5/16”. The width of the braces is not indicative of the scallop profile (or even whether the braces are scalloped).

The fact that the braces are Adirondack and not Sitka indicates that whoever spec’ed the guitar was aware of subtle details. I wouldn’t be surprised if the braces have GE scalloping. Ironically, according to reputable sources, Martin used Sitka spruce on braces in the actual Golden Era, not red spruce (which was used for the tops).

[lowrider]

Mark@Renos explained to me that from the Custom Shop you can order;

Straight bracing, Scalloped bracing, or GE bracing.

There is a difference. He said GE bracing will make it more likely that you have an exceptional guitar.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Attached is a look at the GE carve in my D18GE.
I can also confirm that this particular guitar is exceptional.
You can see how close to the X it comes if you zoom in on the shadow

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by lowrider

Mark@Renos explained to me that from the Custom Shop you can order;

Straight bracing, Scalloped bracing, or GE bracing.

There is a difference. He said GE bracing will make it more likely that you have an exceptional guitar.

Custom Shop Expert dealers have a fourth option—Authentic bracing, which is more scalloped than GE bracing. Here is a spec sheet from July 2022 for a guitar with Authentic bracing (see “Bracing Pattern Number, Top” ). Hot hide glue may be another option that only CSE dealers can specify as well—not sure about that one.



Pretty sure that dealers customarily take at least 15% off the estimate from Martin, so this guitar would’ve been around $10k. Good thing I waited—the recently introduced Custom Shop 000-18 1937 is basically the same guitar in pre-packaged form, and is $3k less (and comes in an aged version for less as well).

[lowrider]

Yes, Mark told me about the Authentic Bracing that he can't offer

My Grand Jumbo 28 is based on a GP 28 Baratone that came with straight bracing. Scalloped would add $150 to the price, GE would add $300.

I don't know what Authentic bracing adds, but I think it would be a larger jump in price.

[sinistral]

I think GE bracing is as far as one would want to go on a Grand Jumbo in any case. The lower bout has a lot of real estate!

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Custom Shop Expert dealers have a fourth option—Authentic bracing, which is more scalloped than GE bracing. Here is a spec sheet from July 2022 for a guitar with Authentic bracing (see “Bracing Pattern Number, Top” ). Hot hide glue may be another option that only CSE dealers can specify as well—not sure about that one.



Pretty sure that dealers customarily take at least 15% off the estimate from Martin, so this guitar would’ve been around $10k. Good thing I waited—the recently introduced Custom Shop 000-18 1937 is basically the same guitar in pre-packaged form, and is $3k less (and comes in an aged version for less as well).

And the tops aren't VTS which I think makes for a better guitar. Something about VTS makes the guitar too rich sounding for my ears and seems to not have as much cut as a non-VTS top.

[blindboyjimi]

Well many different things are going on. For bracing, Martin offers standard, GE or Authentic scalloped bracing. Standard is.., well the basic scalloped bracing. GE or Golden Era is a stronger scalloping, meaning a lighter bracing. Authentic bracing was only available on the Authentic series, but has recently been available as an option through the Custom Shop. This bracing is the most scalloped and gives the most responsive tops. For tops you’ve got standard and torrefied, and for the size of the braces 1/4" is obviously less than the usual 5/16" braces so gives to a more responsive guitar. Martin has its history and its marketing. With 3 different braces and 2 different brace sizes, as well as thin finish options, etc it allows Martin to have many different models giving slightly different tones. The absolute best would be the thinnest braces, the most scalloping, the thinnest tops and the thinnest finish. i.e., a vintage guitar.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

Well many different things are going on. For bracing, Martin offers standard, GE or Authentic scalloped bracing. Standard is.., well the basic scalloped bracing. GE or Golden Era is a stronger scalloping, meaning a lighter bracing. Authentic bracing was only available on the Authentic series, but has recently been available as an option through the Custom Shop. This bracing is the most scalloped and gives the most responsive tops. For tops you’ve got standard and torrefied, and for the size of the braces 1/4" is obviously less than the usual 5/16" braces so gives to a more responsive guitar. Martin has its history and its marketing. With 3 different braces and 2 different brace sizes, as well as thin finish options, etc it allows Martin to have many different models giving slightly different tones. The absolute best would be the thinnest braces, the most scalloping, the thinnest tops and the thinnest finish. i.e., a vintage guitar.

For those seeking authenticity with a pre-war (e.g., 1937) 000-18 (or an original OM-18 or OM-28), I’m pretty sure one would specify 5/16” x-braces and not 1/4” as are found on modern versions of those models (and Sitka spruce braces rather than Adirondack).

[lowrider]

One thing I've wondered about is;

Can the Authentic Expert dealers offer Authentic bracing on guitar that doesn't have an Authentic model like the M-36, J-40, or my upcoming GJ-28 that has never existed until they make mine.

What do you think?

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by lowrider

One thing I've wondered about is;

Can the Authentic Expert dealers offer Authentic bracing on guitar that doesn't have an Authentic model like the M-36, J-40, or my upcoming GJ-28 that has never existed until they make mine.

What do you think?

That’s a great question. When Martin refers to Authentic bracing profile/scalloping, it is always in reference to the degree of scalloping of a particular pre-war model (e.g., 000, dreadnought, etc.). There is no precedent for an M or J model (or GJ). My understanding is that the M and J models are scalloped similar to the standard HD-28, which was introduced around the same time that Martin began production of the M-38 (which preceded the M-36 by a couple of years).



In a Fretboard Summit presentation, Mark Stutman and TJ Thompson discuss an F-style guitar that TJ is retopping for Mark in the tradition of Matt Umanov et al. I’ll ping Mark to see if he will reveal what level of scalloping he and TJ settled on (if they have)—hopefully Mark will respond.

The GJ is a whole nother beast. With a guitar that big, I would think that the lower bout would not benefit from deep scalloping. As it is, GE bracing will be a bit of an experiment. Even if a CSE dealer could request it, I’m not sure that it would make sense. My 1993 J-40 has cavernous reverb, and it’s not even reimagined (with forward-shifted braces)—I can’t imagine what a GJ with GE bracing will sound like!