Looking for high quality "Crossover" guitar

[conecaster]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I know it's not your term and it may be just me, but live sound comes across as so incredibly arrogant. It's as if centuries of evolution have not been able to produce instrument that sound "live" without some fancy electronics inside and out - including some that now sell for several million.

Oh well, I guess we classical musicians are similarly arrogant when we voice our conviction that only e-guitar, synths and family sound better through an amp than without ...

I can see your interpretation.

No offense intended

I use this term to distinguish between full blown loud stage performance and acoustic guitars played without amplification it more limited amplification like a stage mike which will not survive an on board amplification system will.

[conecaster]

Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann

Hi Paul,
I inserted the direct video links.

That's for sure. I remember seeing your designs on a previous forum, and they were truly ground breaking. I suspect many of your designs were also inspirational to many other luthiers. I recall your modern forms started appearing in many designs after that period.

Thank you for fixing the videos.

I used the code after the youtube section in different versions. I have it sorted other videos and went back and confirmed what I did with them but they just would not load.

My ACE design was a really acoustic instrument from the beginning. The issue was building a more sensitive Instrument that still is controllable at high vol.

The result is an aesthetic that accommodates a great range of playing styles including classical stuff but its more adaptable to other styles people want to play.

Most are 1 7/8 th nut widths.

I find the greater guitar community more inspiring. When I started making resonator models I realized that creative people want a guitar that takes them to new places.

As a result I worked not only with Earl, but Chet Atkins and one of my favorites of all Nato Lima.

Just for fun here is Nato from back in the 60s with his brother Antenor.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by conecaster

No offense intended

Oh, I never thought so, in fact I'm sure no one intends offense with it. It's just one of the weird (if you think about it) terminologies certain groups of musicians have begun to use apparently without without much reflection on it might evoke for the larger population. Bit of the same process that lead to the need to clarify what you mean with "acoustic", nowadays...

BTW, I remember chatting with you a few years back when your pickup system was still more or less under development, and I still planning to convert a resonator to nylon strings or adjusting to a newly converted one.

[Coler]

The determined knocking of Lowden's nylon guitars, by posters who do not refer to any personal experience ahd at best are parroting back what they have picked up from various other sources, is weird.


OP I have a Lowden S32J. Very happy with it. Bought primarily to play unplugged. PM me any questions as O don't wish to get sucked into a negative exchange on-thread.

Similarly happy to answer any genuine questions via PM.

[CoastStrings]

Originally Posted by Coler

The determined knocking of Lowden's nylon guitars, by posters who do not refer to any personal experience ahd at best are parroting back what they have picked up from various other sources, is weird.

Along the same line of thought, I don't think the showcasing of a Wee Lowden model as an example of the SXXJ series serves any good purpose or reinforces credibility.

I certainly don't expect the Lowden Sheeran to sound like the O-series (the latter which I have played and very much enjoyed).

[nikpearson]

… also sound like the small guitars they are. The SxxJ instruments are larger and don’t suffer this issue. If I could justify having multiple nylon string guitars I’d still have one of the Jazz series.

[conecaster]

[QUOTE]Very nice examples, Paul. I'd be grateful if you could provide more details of which specific components you used for Earl's guitar back then (and perhaps which ones you would recommend today).

I'll admit that this is my first time to hear of GoAA. I'l need to learn more as I'm using amplification a bit more these days./QUOTE]

I made Earl guitars in a variety of materials. The Solo Recordings were Indian Rosewood guitars. There was one in Cedar and the other Spruce. I really do not remember the Spruce guitar. The cedar was an 8 fan top design. This was a style Ruck used early on in his career. I knew Robert well and I was experimenting with his 8 fan pattern that Barrueco played. That guitar was magical.

I first met Earl at CAAS in 89. After that we spoke often for many years.

There were many guitars made. I had this stash of very old dalbergias from Central America. Then others were Brazilian rosewood. I also has a bunch of German Spruce , that was cut in 1970.

There were several patterns. The first patterns used on the Solo Guitar record were early drawings I did a long time ago. They have tight radius waist curves.

I also used an older Spanish pattern by Simplicio. I made him one of those when he recorded Sound and Visions 30 years ago. Its was Brazilian with a cedar top.

The stage guitar is 50 cm down the center line of the body. That is a Fleta thing. In the last ten years Ruck would send clients to me to fix his guitars. One came in and when I saw it, I did a double take. I pulled out my pattern from nearly 30 years before and the Ruck was so close to mine. The same guitar pattern Earl toured with the last 20 years.

I drew my pattern. It was so close to Robert's.

I called Bob and told him about it, he said that was a Fleta pattern his guitar was made from.

Very odd to me.

Here is a guitar I made last year.










This guitar has Go AA installed discretely with vol. Control on the edge of the sound hole.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by nikpearson

… also sound like the small guitars they are. The SxxJ instruments are larger and don’t suffer this issue. If I could justify having multiple nylon string guitars I’d still have one of the Jazz series.

Exactly, we're talking about nylon strung guitars. Ask someone like Alan Carruth about his thoughts on and experience in making such instruments that sound good. He'll probably tell you there's a reason why classical guitars are the size they are (small, apparently) and may add that the most likely way to make bigger nylon-stringers that also sound good is by using an archtop design. He's waiting for someone to commission such an instrument that's larger than the (IIRC) 16" models he already built btw.
My Cabaret has an arched back which (supposedly) gives her a number of the sonic characteristics of a fully arched instrument. I never cease to be amazed at the power of her basses, esp. with a 0.050" low E tuned to D. Then again I have never played a traditional classical of comparable price/quality so there might be nothing exceptional here (except she never sounds muddy/boomy). (That's the just-over-3k€ segment, I don't want to go into comparisons with instruments costing twice or more than that.)

This is the classical subforum so of course I'm defining "sounding good" as giving the kind of tonal *and* dynamic range when played acoustically (= unplugged). IMHO if you're after something that requires amplification to achieve both you can just as well go for one of the digital whizzkids with a proven trackrecord (Godin whatsitcalledagain, Cordoba Stage, ...) and enjoy their other advantages. Like advanced DSP that seems to be able to get rid of all traces of piezo quack much better than anything else (and that you carry with the instrument).
I don't know if they have a "sound like Chet Atkins" setting, though

For reference, the OP mentioned in his 1st thread that among the crossovers he had tried a

Originally Posted by bigignatz

few have been OK, like Yamaha's nylon transacoustic, but they pale in comparison to even middling classicals.

That's also been exactly my experience. Though I should add that the Cordoba Fusion I had for a blue monday paled on aspects that had nothing to do with tonal or dynamic range (which were exactly what you'd expect from a Chinese-built guitar in this price range).

BTW: another brand that gets consistent warm reviews on classical forums including for being of a very good price/quality ratio:
http://guitarraspicado.com/site/en/g...lo-49-cutaway/
(note the footnote about custom specs.)

[CoastStrings]

Originally Posted by conecaster

Here is a guitar I made last year.

Sweet design! Love the woods!

Originally Posted by conecaster

I drew my pattern. It was so close to Robert's.

I called Bob and told him about it, he said that was a Fleta pattern his guitar was made from.

Very odd to me.

Do you mean it was "odd" that you both used Fleta designs (I assume you mean the bracing pattern)? Or was it "odd" that you created a design that mirrored Fleta's?

I recall that Ignacio Fleta's fame grew further when John Williams was using one of his guitars. Then Williams switched to guitars from Greg Smallman.

[conecaster]

Originally Posted by CoastStrings

Sweet design! Love the woods!





Do you mean it was "odd" that you both used Fleta designs (I assume you mean the bracing pattern)? Or was it "odd" that you created a design that mirrored Fleta's?

Years earlier I had Drawn a pattern. I never thought about copying any other guitar. When Bob told me his pattern was copied from Fleta I thought it odd that I had drawn the same shape with out knowing what I had done.

Kind of unlike I thought but it happened

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by CoastStrings

One other off-the-shelf option would be the Lowden's S-25J. These are fitted with a Fishmann Matrix Infinity pickup.

Used models can be had for about $5k.

I have no experience with this guitar but Lowden was an excellent builder of classical guitars before they made their name in steel-strings. The odds are good that this instrument would sound good even without an amp.

Note that Lowden has four nylon models so you may be able to find something in your price range.

Good hunting!

I have a Lowden S50-J and it is a wonderful instrument. My favorite guitar.

[conecaster]

Originally Posted by CoastStrings

Very nice examples, Paul. I'd be grateful if you could provide more details of which specific components you used for Earl's guitar back then (and perhaps which ones you would recommend today).

I'll admit that this is my first time to hear of GoAA. I'l need to learn more as I'm using amplification a bit more these days.

The Klugh guitar has RMC installed in it. It was installed 10 years after it was made by Tom Pellerito in Michigan.

It is a classical guitar. So the only thing cross over is the System.



In the last 25 years I have made a true cross over model.

Over the last dozen years I have been pursuing better amplified sound and have Go Acoustic Audio to provide amplified sound.

This is one of my Super Acoustic Classical Electric models played unplugged.



Here is the model with a Go Acoustic system installed in it.

Steve is one of the most admired guitarist on the Las Vegas scene.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pym_jJr4mCo


BTW- the guitar is Indian rosewood and cedar not brazilian as suggested. I made his guitar back around 2001 or so, it is a very early example. I use the word "conecaster" for my email so Steven is confusing that here. My site is mcgillguitars.com, Amplification is goacousticaudio.com




To demonstrate the sound of GoAA in a classical I have this link to my Drive

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mSY...ew?usp=sharing

the ACE model can be played without effects and get a really natural sound. But the stage performers tend to use some effects if only minimal.

[TimL]

I was going to offer up a couple of options for you, and I will but...

Paul is the guy to talk to. Not only is he well known for his ACE models but possible even better known for his other nylon string guitars. A new ACE may not be in your price range but I believe I have seen a few older ones, older circutry, for under 4k.
I currently own a Super Ace.

Another possibility, that is along the D'Aquisto pattern is the Borys B520. They have a carved back/flat top. Hard to find, but they are nice guitars and available just under $4k.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by TimL

Another possibility, that is along the D'Aquisto pattern is the Borys B520. They have a carved back/flat top. Hard to find, but they are nice guitars and available just under $4k.

How capable are these acoustically? IIRC Borys came up when I was looking for a nylon string archtop, and I came away with the impression that their instruments are really meant to be played plugged-in.

Anyway, a nylon-strung maple archback with a flat spruce top for under $4k, that describes my Cabaret perfectly. If you can get one from Buscarino himself you'll even get it set up like his own Cabarets that go for 3x more and with an Ultratonic installed instead of the stock LRBaggs UST Eastman put in.

[TimL]

I have never seen, nor heard, one of the Borys nylon archtops. I have no idea about the projection on those.

I do have an B520 Maple/Spruce. It plays fine acoustically and does have good projection, unplugged. Acoustically, it isn't going to fill a concert hall, but is has enough, unplugged, to fill a small room. I bought it, used, several years ago and it did come with both an under-bridge multi-transducer plus a soundhole mic setup. It was a working guitar.
They are similar to the Cabaret, but when I looked at those they double the price, new or used. The Eastman is a newer animal. Not sure how many Buscarino sets up every year, in the beginning it seemed like a minimal number.