Looking for high quality "Crossover" guitar

[bigignatz]

Looking for a higher end "crossover" nylon string. Would like to keep fret width at the nut at about 1 7/8.

Would like all solid woods, fan bracing (or similar) and high level of workmanship. Need to go used, however. Trying to spend less than $5K.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

[RJVB]

Why start a new thread, you didn't like the answers on your first??

That thread and other similar recent ones list several options that fall in your budget even when brand new. Here in Europe you'd even be able to find a luthier who'll build you one for that amount.

[airborne1]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Why start a new thread, you didn't like the answers on your first??

That thread and other similar recent ones list several options that fall in your budget even when brand new. Here in Europe you'd even be able to find a luthier who'll build you one for that amount.

It’s possible the OP thought he would get more response from the classical forum.

[CoastStrings]

I'd normally just recommend the $2K Yamaha NTX5 which is made in Japan and uses the new Atmosfeel pickup system.

But your budget is $5K. With that much spending power, I would probably read through this interview with Earl Klugh, identify the builders of his gear and their pick-up systems, and then search the used market or commission a guitar to your specs.

Earl Klugh Interview: Guitars, George Benson and Naked Guitar

I’m pretty straightforward. I have a really decent collection of pretty nice classical guitars. I have a couple of guitars made by David Rubio. He made instruments in the ’60s for Julian Bream. I have two Velasquez guitars, which I really love. I’ve recorded with one of them probably more than any other instrument. I did my first four albums with it, and I’ve used it periodically right up through everything else.

On the road there are several guitars I use. For about eight years now I’ve been using guitars made by Del Langejans, he’s out of Holland, Michigan. He’s primarily a steel string builder and they’re really nice instruments. When traveling I take a couple of instruments, because a lot of times they get banged around, the electronics. I want to make sure something works when I show up. I have to check at least one guitar all the time.

I was having problems with this, so I spoke with him and he was able to build some really road-worthy guitars that sound great through pickups in an amplified setting, but at the same time were sturdy enough to withstand the rigors of the road. I’ve never had a problem with any of his instruments, so that has worked well for me. He was kind enough to listen to my particular situation and build some instruments that work for me, and they work well. I’ve got about five of his instruments and I always take two on the road. They’re equipped with L R Baggs pickups.

Also, the person I’ve had even a longer association with, dating back to the late Eighties, is Paul McGill out of Nashville. He’s a great builder too. He specializes in classical guitars. He’s a fine builder, one of the best. I have eight or ten of his instruments. We’re good friends and he builds instruments specifically for me.

One of his instruments I have equipped with a McLish pickup. It’s totally a classical guitar with no modifications. I use it quite often, and I try to take it on the airplane with me. Even when it’s amplified it has no amplified tone to it. Especially when I do the trio shows, that’s what I use. The guitar is just more exposed and I need that fullness of sound.

[CoastStrings]

One other off-the-shelf option would be the Lowden's S-25J. These are fitted with a Fishmann Matrix Infinity pickup.

Used models can be had for about $5k.

I have no experience with this guitar but Lowden was an excellent builder of classical guitars before they made their name in steel-strings. The odds are good that this instrument would sound good even without an amp.

Note that Lowden has four nylon models so you may be able to find something in your price range.

Good hunting!

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by airborne1

It’s possible the OP thought he would get more response from the classical forum.

Would have been nice to say so, with a little apology for the double posting etc - we could have told him that one can ask the mods to move a thread for such reasons.

Originally Posted by CoastStrings

I have no experience with this guitar but Lowden was an excellent builder of classical guitars before they made their name in steel-strings. The odds are good that this instrument would sound good even without an amp.

As said elsewhere, the Lowden "Jazz" nylon stringers have little to nothing to do with the concert classicals built by George Lowden (and I never saw he stopped doing that). Whether they sound good is to the ear of the beholder but they don't sound like classicals and the consensus seems to be they're meant to be plugged in and thus can't keep up acoustically with "even a middling classical". In short, you pay a premium for just the name...

IMHO, if you want a fan-or-similar braced guitar, you stick to the classical guitar design because those 2 designs co-evolved. There are more than enough CGs crossing over through a narrower neck and cutaway, and for close to 5k$ you can also have one built.
Things might get trickier if the OP insists on buying used in that price range because AFAIK there's a bit of a gap between the <2k classical crossovers and the real high-end ones that start at >9k. And those tend to have a wider nut (understandably, I'd add).

There's this one, a bit over 5k€ new:
https://www.siccasguitars.com/shop/g...a-fusion-pc-2/
(but it may be lattice-braced)

[bigignatz]

In response to RJVB and airborne1: Exactly, and I didn't see that there was much response to the first until recently. I'm confused by this forum...there seems to be a lot of people on edge and ready to be hostile, and even procedural questions and problems with the site architecture (had lots of problems with posting photos until I "broke the code") are met with an unnecessary level of nastiness. Very strange.

If you don't want to read the thread, then don't. Nobody's forcing you to.

[bigignatz]

Very interesting responses here, and will definitely follow up on everybody's recommendations. The Benson interview is great because I have always wondered what guitars he uses, none of them have looked familiar and now I know why.

Also hadn't even thought about Lowden...will definitely look into it.

Yes, it's a lot of money, and the purchase will have to wait until my resonators and the Bourgeois Slope D get sold before I can act on your guy's excellent set of suggestions.

Thanks again!

[nikpearson]

I seem to remember that George started out by building steel-string guitars but at a later point he made a limited number of concert classicals under his own name rather than the Lowden brand. He also makes a very small number of steel-string guitars under the George Lowden luthier banner. These have a very similar aesthetic to the Lowden workshop guitars but are made solely by George and command considerably higher prices.

The Lowden Jazz series are crossover guitars using a lighter version of Lowden’s X-brace / A-brace system. They do sound quite different to a concert classical because of this. Having owned three over the years I really liked the different tonal palette: still distinctly nylon, but a little less responsive and complex than a good concert guitar. My view is that this makes them well suited to accompanying vocals and fingerstyle playing. You can play the classical repertoire on them but that isn’t their forte. The onboard pickup system is good if you are looking to perform. As with all Lowden guitars the build quality and overall aesthetic is lovely. Your budget would cover a used model, possibly even a new S25J or S32J depending on exchange rates.

There’s been some criticism of the SxxJ models in this (and the other) thread but in my opinion they are excellent instruments. For reference, I’ve built classical instruments both traditional and double-top, but can still appreciate the Lowden ‘Jazz’ instruments.

[conecaster]

Also, the person I’ve had even a longer association with, dating back to the late Eighties, is Paul McGill out of Nashville. He’s a great builder too. He specializes in classical guitars. He’s a fine builder, one of the best. I have eight or ten of his instruments. We’re good friends and he builds instruments specifically for me.

One of his instruments I have equipped with a McLish pickup. It’s totally a classical guitar with no modifications. I use it quite often, and I try to take it on the airplane with me. Even when it’s amplified it has no amplified tone to it. Especially when I do the trio shows, that’s what I use. The guitar is just more exposed and I need that fullness of sound.

http://mcgillguitars.com

From around 2001 on Earl toured with one of my guitars. In 98 I began building the Acoustic Classical Electric model or Super A C E. I made one for Earl in the early 2000s. His stage guitar is one of my 50 cm classical designs. I think I made him about 15 classical guitars between 89 and 92. Then he pushed me to build the Del Vecchio style resonators I am known for.

Over the last 25 years I have been on the front edge of nylon cross over guitar design. My focus led me to pursue designing electronics that would make stage sound viable at vol. That is what my purpose for Go Acoustic Audio is. It was a must for me to have live sound for my cross over designs.

Here is Earl with my Classical made in 91. This was from 2013 and Equipped with RMC.



Given Earl's health decline there was never an opportunity to expose him to GoAA.

this is One of my Acoustic Classical Electric stage models Super A C E featuring Go AA goacousticaudio.com

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by conecaster

http://mcgillguitars.com

From around 2001 on Earl toured with one of my guitars. In 98 I began building the Acoustic Classical Electric model or Super A C E. I made one for Earl in the early 2000s. His stage guitar is one of my 50 cm classical designs. I think I made him about 15 classical guitars between 89 and 92. Then he pushed me to build the Del Vecchio style resonators I am known for.

Over the last 25 years I have been on the front edge of nylon cross over guitar design. My focus led me to pursue designing electronics that would make stage sound viable at vol. That is what my purpose for Go Acoustic Audio is. It was a must for me to have live sound for my cross over designs.

Here is Earl with my Classical made in 91. This was from 2013 and Equipped with RMC.



Given Earl's health decline there was never an opportunity to expose him to GoAA.

this is One of my Acoustic Classical Electric stage models Super A C E featuring Go AA goacousticaudio.com

Hi Paul,
I inserted the direct video links.

Over the last 25 years I have been on the front edge of nylon cross over guitar design.

That's for sure. I remember seeing your designs on a previous forum, and they were truly ground breaking. I suspect many of your designs were also inspirational to many other luthiers. I recall your modern forms started appearing in many designs after that period.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by bigignatz

If you don't want to read the thread, then don't. Nobody's forcing you to.

I won't contradict you on some of your observations concerning this site, but it's basic, long-standing netiquette not t ask the same question multiple times esp. if it's a topic that has already been discussed in several other recent threads. Other members may not be obliged to read a thread but they are (forced) to filter.

Here's one of those pricey Lowden nylon stringers in all its glory...

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by conecaster

It was a must for me to have live sound for my cross over designs.

I know it's not your term and it may be just me, but live sound comes across as so incredibly arrogant. It's as if centuries of evolution have not been able to produce instrument that sound "live" without some fancy electronics inside and out - including some that now sell for several million.

Oh well, I guess we classical musicians are similarly arrogant when we voice our conviction that only e-guitar, synths and family sound better through an amp than without ...

[airborne1]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I won't contradict you on some of your observations concerning this site, but it's basic, long-standing netiquette not t ask the same question multiple times esp. if it's a topic that has already been discussed in several other recent threads. Other members may not be obliged to read a thread but they are (forced) to filter.

Here's one of those pricey Lowden nylon stringers in all its glory...

Take a chill pill!

[CoastStrings]

Originally Posted by bigignatz

The Benson interview is great because I have always wondered what guitars he uses, none of them have looked familiar and now I know why.

Glad that it was useful.

FWIW, I typically just hang out in the Classical section when I come visit the AGF. My usual haunt is the Delcamp forums.

Originally Posted by nikpearson

There’s been some criticism of the SxxJ models in this (and the other) thread but in my opinion they are excellent instruments.

Nice to see you here as well as at Delcamp.

I made the assumption that bigignatz wasn't necessarily looking for a classical tone for his instrument. His primary concerns seemed to be ease of playability given some physical challenges and perhaps the need for a shorter scale.

I'll let him clarify his preferences.

Originally Posted by conecaster

Here is Earl with my Classical made in 91. This was from 2013 and Equipped with RMC.

Given Earl's health decline there was never an opportunity to expose him to GoAA.

Very nice examples, Paul. I'd be grateful if you could provide more details of which specific components you used for Earl's guitar back then (and perhaps which ones you would recommend today).

I'll admit that this is my first time to hear of GoAA. I'l need to learn more as I'm using amplification a bit more these days.