Classical guitar pickup problem.

[runamuck]

I've just installed a Journey, under the bridge piezo pickup (similar to K&K) in a thin bodied classical guitar I just built. It sounds fine but I'm getting a tremendous amount of both string squeak and body noise. I've installed 3 or 4 K&K pickups in steel string guitars and have never had this problem. I compared the sound of this system to K&K's before ordering and they sounded the same in youtube videos.

Any suggestions? The 4 piezos are mounted just in back of the saddle above and are superglued on.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I've just installed a Journey, under the bridge piezo pickup (similar to K&K) in a thin bodied classical guitar I just built. It sounds fine but I'm getting a tremendous amount of both string squeak and body noise. I've installed 3 or 4 K&K pickups in steel string guitars and have never had this problem. I compared the sound of this system to K&K's before ordering and they sounded the same in youtube videos.

Any suggestions? The 4 piezos are mounted just in back of the saddle above and are superglued on.

I've installed both the 4 transducer K&K pickup and a few undersaddle pickups in nylon string classical guitars.

The soundboard transducer pickups (K&K, etc.) don't work well for classical guitars, and the rich tone of the classical does not translate well. Classical instruments are built lightly so the entire top plate is very reactive. This does not translate to a good method of picking up string energy, so that's why you end up with all that string squeak and body noise.

I dislike undersaddle pickups for steel string guitars but they are actually superior for picking up string energy in a classical guitar application. (I've installed many K&Ks in steel string guitars always with great results.)

Neither undersaddle or soundboard transducers pickups are ideal for classicals but undersaddle transducers are definitely the better choice.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've installed both the 4 transducer K&K pickup and a few undersaddle pickups in nylon string classical guitars.

The soundboard transducer pickups (K&K, etc.) don't work well for classical guitars, and the rich tone of the classical does not translate well. Classical instruments are built lightly so the entire top plate is very reactive. This does not translate to a good method of picking up string energy, so that's why you end up with all that string squeak and body noise.

I dislike undersaddle pickups for steel string guitars but they are actually superior for picking up string energy in a classical guitar application. (I've installed many K&Ks in steel string guitars always with great results.)

Neither undersaddle or soundboard transducers pickups are ideal for classicals but undersaddle transducers are definitely the better choice.

Thank you for that. Do you have an under saddle brand/model you'd recommend?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Thank you for that. Do you have an under saddle brand/model you'd recommend?

The only solid recommendation I can make is the Fishman AG series of undersaddle pickups. That is because they are often supplied as a pickup in guitars from well respected manufacturers.

Most of the larger manufacturers are using this pickup (or a cheaper version) as the basis for their acoustic electrics, like the Cordoba Stage. There's a reason why manufacturers have settled on the undersaddle as the starting point for their pickup systems, and then use them in conjunction with electronics to further refine the tonality of their guitars.

Because I know that Fishman most likely sources their transducers from Asia I tried a few of the ones sold on eBay. The best was a 1.6mm thickness "thin" undersaddle Piezo wrapped in red foil. It was also the most expensive at something like 7 bucks.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

The best was a 1.6mm thickness "thin" undersaddle Piezo wrapped in red foil. It was also the most expensive at something like 7 bucks.

Coincidentally I ordered one of those last night as a test run.

Thanks again for your help.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Coincidentally I ordered one of those last night as a test run.

Thanks again for your help.

No problem.

Undersaddle piezos really benefit from impedance matching, most easily accomplished with a simple preamp. Whatever you experiment with, do try a pre between the pickup and the amplifier to see what difference it makes.

You might find my "Dozen Dollar Preamp" topic of interest.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

No problem.

Undersaddle piezos really benefit from impedance matching, most easily accomplished with a simple preamp. Whatever you experiment with, do try a pre between the pickup and the amplifier to see what difference it makes.

You might find my "Dozen Dollar Preamp" topic of interest.

Thanks again, Rudy4.

I built this guitar for my son who wanted a classical he could quickly plug into his interface to map out ideas instead of having to set up mics. He never plays out so never uses an amp.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

No problem.

Undersaddle piezos really benefit from impedance matching, most easily accomplished with a simple preamp. Whatever you experiment with, do try a pre between the pickup and the amplifier to see what difference it makes.

You might find my "Dozen Dollar Preamp" topic of interest.

I ordered and installed the same under saddle pickup you mentioned - the red one, $7 on Amazon. The body noise and string squeaks are gone. It's not the greatest cl. guitar sound sound but it was a vast improvement.

Thank you.