Making string sets for any 12 string tuning

[12 string]

I custom blend my own 12 string sets. I buy my strings in bulk and keep a dealer's inventory of all the gauges. Right now I have guitars ranging in tuning from a m3 (3 frets) high to a P4 (5 frets) low, and many points between. Sometimes I go even lower. Looking at the link to the UMGF string tension chart (http://theunofficialmartinguitarforu...String-Tension) I see that the commecial medium and heavy gauge sets put too much tension on the guitar even when tuned low. This methodology avoids that problem.

Let's start with a light gauge set used for standard tuning. For various reasons some people prefer to tune this down a M2 or 2 frets, and that's fine. It's really not necessary for high quality guitars, but those of this persuasion can still use this methodology, and even use it to make ultralight sets they can tune up to standard with complete confidence and no capo.

--E ----------- B -------------G ---------------- D ----------------A --------------E
.010---------.014 ---------- .023 ------------- .030 --------------.039 -----------.047
.010 --------.014 ----------.008-9 -------------.012 -------------.020w ----------.027

The .020w is not standard, but I love what it does to the sound of my guitars. Yeah, some of them break.

Next, let's jump to a set tuned a P4 or 5 frets low, and, yes, lots of players do this. We're doing this because 2/3 of our set is already laid out for us:

--B ------------F#------------ D ----------------- A --------------E ----------------B
.014 ---------.018 -----------030 ---------------.039 ------------.047 ------------.056-8
.014--------- .018 ----------.012 ---------------.020w -----------.027 ------------.036

In the heavy set for the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th courses use the same note names and gauges as the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th courses in the light set. I did some extrapolation to guesstimate gauges for the 2nd and 6th courses.

This sets the parameters for any tuning in between. For a less extreme low tuning try to split the difference proportionally. A set for -2 frets might look like this (lighter gauge players would tune this 4 frets or a M3 low, C,G,Eb,Bb,F,C):

--D------------- A -----------F ------------------C ---------------G ---------------D
.012 ---------.016 --------.025 ----------------.032 -------------.042 ------------.050
.012----------.016 ------.009-.010 -------------.013-4 -----------.022 ------------.030

I would recommend constructing a chart with note names and guesstimated gauges for 1 fret, 3 frets and 4 frets low as well. Lighter gauge players adjust note names accordingly. There will be some unavoidable inconsistancies; instances where a particular string is tuned to one note in one set and a semitone (1 fret) higher or lower in some other set. The numbers just don't lend themselves to even divisions. For example, for the first course one might use .011s for one fret low, .013s for -3, and a .013 and a .014 for -4. There are other ways to divide it up, of course. When laying out a string set figure out the note names you need, find as many as you can on your chart, and extrapolate the rest. Look for internal consistancies: is the high octave on the 3rd course lighter than the 1st? Is the high octave 4th lighter than the 2nd? Make sure your low 3rd and high fifth have a proportional difference as well as the low 4th and high 6th. Are there reasonable jumps in gauge from course to course? You may want to micro-adjust here or there. Lighter gauge players can make a set for standard tuning going from .008-9 to .044-5.

If you have multiple guitars you can make a set to remain in dropped "D" by beefing up the 6th course a bit. Beef up the 1st and 5 th courses as well and you have a set for permanant open "G". Increase 1st, 2nd and 6th and you have "DADGAD". Lower the guages a little on the 3rd, 4th and 5th courses and it's open "E".

You can also increase chorus effect by mismatching treble strings: use an .011 and a .013 instead of two .012s, for example.

It's expensive to get this started, but in the long run you'll save money by buying strings in bulk, avoiding wear and tear on your tuners and premature string deadening due to constant tuning up and down. You can also avoid fret jobs necessitated by having a capo on the 2nd fret all the time. Even with just two 12 strings adopting a system like this will open doors and allow possibilities you've never dreamed of. Your guitars will thank you as well.

I hope that's all clear enough. If there are any questions, just ask.

[cjjtulsa]

I was waiting for you to post all of this - thanks. And another thing; where do you buy your bulk singles, and can you get coated singles? I've seen places that sell the single strings, but I don't think any are coated. And do you notice a decrease in bass with the smaller gauges in the thicker strings?

[12 string]

CJ,

I was going to do some research so I could really come back with lots of info but that hasn't happened yet and time is passing, so I'll just try to point out some directions.

I shop around for string deals and have been known to load up with years of supply on a single order. I've had very good luck negotiating deals with local merchants. For standard tuning I usually use Elixir PB lights, except for the .020w.

I use PBs. I have started with new to me dealers by ordering a "starter kit" or two. (check D'Addario)This gives you a wide array of different gauges to start with and also gets you the same boxes you see behind the counter at your favorite music stores. Very handy. Once the ice is broken the dealer will likely continue giving great discounts even if all you order is just a bulk pack or two of this gauge or that gauge. On the bass end some oddball gauges are hard to find from any manufacturer. Then I go to outfits like juststrings.com and thinmanmusic.com. I have found that the bulk .020ws from juststrings are the least prone to breakage.

I have not found anybody offering good discounts on bulk coated singles. I also havn't looked in a while; I think I will soon. When and if I find some good deals I'll probably start switching over. I have heard of outfits who will send bulk quantities of any string set you specify gauge by gauge. Even Elixers, if I understand correctly. It might be worth checking in to.

Now for your question about less bass tone due to lighter gauges. For me the question is moot; I really wouldn't know. I have never subjected a guitar to an elixir heavy set tuned to -3. Never will. I'm sure it sounds different. It's not that my sets are lighter: theirs are too heavy! The light gauge sets and sensible medium sets from other manufacturers keep the total tension in the 260 lb range. Elixir heavies at -3 frets put 323 lbs of tension on the guitar.

The Elixir heavy set looks like this:

---C#-------------G#--------------E-----------------B---------------F#---------------C#
.013/.013-------.017/.017-----.030/.014----------.039/.018-------.047/.027--------.056/.035

That set fails the internal consistancy test many ways. In a light gauge set .027 and .047 tune to E, and up to F# in the heavy set. .039 and .018 are A in light and B in heavy. .030 and .012 are D in light and .030 and.014(!) go up to E in heavy. .014 is B in light and .010 is E! The high octave 3rd course is a heavier gauge than the lower tuned first course just as the high octave 4th course is a heavier gauge than the lower tuned second. This is nuts! The jump in guage from the 2nd course to the 3rd, and from the 3rd to the 4th is not proportional and therefore is skewed to the bass end. My string sets are better balanced and make my guitars sound great. That was the real point of this thread in the first place.

A better set for -3 might look like this:

---C#-------------G#-------------E------------------B--------------F#---------------C#
.012/.013----- .016/.017 ------.026/.010--------- .035/.015-------.044/.024---------.052/.032

Another thought - the last guitar I took in for a set up included one of my light sets. When the guitar was ready the tech had tuned it to -2 because he wasn't sure what I wanted and erred on the side of caution. It sounded a little different that way, but darn good. Good enough that I left it there for a while before tuning it up the rest of the way.

Thanks for your interest and for allowing me a chance to talk about my experience.

[buddiesorg]

I wish I had read this back when I was making my sets ... though I do think I've ended up with a couple of nice sets on my own.

One I really like is (tuned down a step, EXP PB wound, Brass plated steels):
10/9, 14/13, 20/8, 28/11, 35/16, 47/27

Right now I'm trying out (tuned down half a step, Newtone PB, plain steels):
9/8, 13/12, 18/8, 26/11, 34/15, 46/26

I've ordered (tuned down half a step, EXP PB wound, Brass plated steels):
9/8, 13/12, 20/8, 26/11, 34/14, 45/25

You can get D'Addario singles (including the Brass plated steels and EXPs) from http://stringsbymail.com
You can also get Elixir singles from http://stringsandbeyond.com
You can also find both at http://juststrings.com ... but they are more expensive there

Also there is a tension calculator at:
http://www.surveyor.com/guitar/stringtension.html

[George W. Kerry]

Thanks for all you do 12.
When you say -3 you're saying c# to C# right?

[12 string]

That's right, George.

David

[12 string]

I edited the charts in my posts here to make them easier to read and understand. Hope this helps.

' Strang

[buddiesorg]

That's interesting ... so you put the lighter of the two strings first on the plain string pairs. When I was debating what to do (two 10s and two 14s just seemed to get in my way when fingerpicking), I decided to put the heavier of the two strings first, since that's the way the wound strings are. I found I liked the feel so I didn't try it the other way. Is there a reason you put the lighter of the two strings first?

[Slight Return]

I'm in need of serious help. I'm going to get a compensated bone saddle soon, and before that's done I really want to make sure that I'm using the most efficient gauge of strings possible.

G# C# G# C# F G# is the tuning I use on my 12 string, i.e. open G down three whole steps.

Obviously, I wasn't happy with the .012 - .054 set I had been using when I had previously tuned higher, so I switched to using John Pearse .013 - .056 strings. I did some minor tweaking, and this is what I'm using now:

.013/.013
.017/.017
.030/.012
.039/.016
.045/.027
.056/.035

The strings feel okay, and I really don't have too many gripes about them; however, I do think that they could be better. Here are the problems, and some things I've been thinking...

Instead of buying the .012 and .016 separately for the octave D and G strings, I could buy two .014s and two .018s separately with each pack, and use the two .013s and .017s I'd originally get with the pack for the octave G and D strings. When I'm doing slide work, I always feel like the B and E strings would perform better if they had a little more tension. I don't think the B and E strings are hindered in terms of playability when I tune one more half step up, but I really don't like the feel of all the other strings when they're any tighter than they are now (the D and G string pairs, basically, because I do occasionally bring the low E, A, and high E strings up a whole step each to reach standard tuning), so I figured that going up .001" on each string might be a good idea -- it might be too heavy, but it's worth trying.

That brings me to my next problem. If I do indeed try this, the .013 and .017 for the octave G and D strings are going to be heavier, and they're still going to be plain steel. Using a soundhole pickup, these octave pairs are already far too loud for my tastes. I was planning on getting some stainless steel strings (perhaps from a pedal steel string set or an Ernie Ball stainless steel string set) to remedy this problem, and if I do indeed end up doing that, I'm going to end up with 4 useless strings every time I buy a new set. This is just economizing I guess, but it still bothers me.

I have no idea what to do. John Pearse strings are by far the best I have used, and I'd prefer to keep using those; however, I don't know where to buy these in bulk. I'm also addled regarding what would be the optimum gauge -- again, I play a fair amount of slide, and sometimes I wish that the strings were just a tiny bit thicker so I'd get more tension without disrupting the feel that I like so much about the current gauge and tuning.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Perhaps that 7/32" getting put on backorder was a blessing in disguise; I'd hate to get that cut and then change string gauges and ruin the whole thing.

[Loud Librarian]

Bumping this old thread up because it is awesome. Strang, you've done good work sharing this info. Do you have anything new to add these days?

I have two twelves and will be changing from standard and going to two whole steps low with these gauges:

12 12 16 16 24 10 32 13 42 20w 54 30

Then I have another that is going to be in open F/C - the usual open G/D but a whole step lower. Here's my plan for this based on Chris Proctor's suggested gauges:

13 13 17 17 25 10 34 13 46 22w 56 34

He's going a tiny bit heavier on the G and D strings, though they're the same pitch as the first -2 tuning.

I also agree with you that the packaged sets are not the best way to go, and I buy in bulk too. Any thoughts on this let me know, thanks.

[12 string]

Wow, thanks for the bump! It's been a long time since this has been on top of the threadpile, but I have linked to it many times in response to questions and other posts. I have a similar thread at LTG:

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sho...-strings/page7

When I started working this all out in the mid '60s 12 string sets were hard to find anywhere. If you could find them they were usually "light gauge", and not well suited to the low tuned players I was listening to (Seeger, Lead Belly, Jesse Fuller, Mark Spoelstra, Michael Cooney etc). There were La Bella "heavy gauge" silk and steel strings which sounded pretty good on Seeger's long-neck (28" scale) 12er but were quite anemic on my short-scale B-45 12N. An early 12 stringerite solution to all this was to buy 2 standard six string sets and a few singles to make a set for low tuning. You really coudn't find specically gauged strings; you might be able to buy a "3rd string" or a "5th string" but the gauge would vary according to which brand the store carried. There was lots of guesswork. A basic "aha" inspiration came with the realization that a standard "light gauge" set contained 2/3 of a low set. Again, with this and a few singles I was good to go low. In the meantime, I also played quite a bit with light gauge tuned up to pitch. I missed the low sounds when tuned high, but I also missed the high sounds when tuned low. Then I got my first Guild, a 1970 F-112. I could have both worlds at the same time! As time went on it became much easier to do the stringing more scientifically. I still had this figured out before there was anything like the wealth of online info and string tension calculators that we now have. Had all that been available I might have gone about it differently, but I don't think the end result would have been at all different.

I'm very pleased that you like my work. I would point out, however, that nobody in the guitar or string industry has been impressed enough to change product line. I'm given to understand that these forums are monitored. Anyway, it works for me.

As for your specific questions, I need more specific information about the actual concert pitches you want to use. Your first set is close to what I use to tune 2 frets or one whole tone low, in permanant dropped D (or Concert dropped C) tuning.

Thanks again,

' Strang

[Loud Librarian]

OK, I just set up my Taylor K65 12 string in D standard (DGCFAD) with these gauges:

12 12 16 16 24 10 32 13 42 20w 54 30w

Seems to be working out so far, I'll play it @ church tonight.

My LKSM is going to be in open F (CFCFAC) or open C (CGCEGC) with these:

13 13 17 17 24 10 32 13 46 22w 56 34w

Thanks for sharing 'strang! This is an art as well as a science.

[geokie8]

Does w20 mean the wound string as opposed to the steel? I like my Gibson J45 tuned D - D with custom strings so I might try the same thing on my Taylor 355. If I want anything except Elixirs it's gonna cost a fortune!

geokie8

[Loud Librarian]

geokie8, yes, the 20w is a wound string. I found it in bulk at juststrings. They also have an 18w too!

[12 string]

Originally Posted by Loud Librarian

OK, I just set up my Taylor K65 12 string in D standard (DGCFAD) with these gauges:

12 12 16 16 24 10 32 13 42 20w 54 30w

Seems to be working out so far, I'll play it @ church tonight.

My LKSM is going to be in open F (CFCFAC) or open C (CGCEGC) with these:

13 13 17 17 24 10 32 13 46 22w 56 34w

Thanks for sharing 'strang! This is an art as well as a science.

It took me a minute to figure it out, but the string gauges listed are in reverse order from the note names, right?

Going with that assumption your notes and gauges make good sense. If you compare to my charts listed above I think you will find that I might go just a wee bit lighter in the low bass but you are still way under Elixir/LKSM tension levels. Certainly no problem for your guitars. With an additional guitar you could micro-adjust a bit more to have a string set for each of your open tunings.

Here's another fossil thread which discusses LKSM guitars and alternative tunings. It shows how confusion over nomenclature and such can get in the way, especially when transpositions for low tunings enter the picture.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=203852

Keep on 12ing,

' Strang