The Palaces and Properties Agency of Denmark & me...a true tale...

[TBman]

I think you made a fair request. I can't believe they are really that cheap.

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[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by TBman

I think you made a fair request. I can't believe they are really that cheap.

Yeah, well, that was sorta my point.

They spent literally millions of Euros on this danged *palace* for their "royal family", and they can't scrape up a few bucks for me.

I took care not to directly challenge/insult the woman who was drawing a frickin' salary to interact with me, to be a part of finding/choosing my music, but to then tell me that *I* couldn't and wouldn't be compensated.

So it goes...

...and I think it is an entertaining (if not overly long) tale.

Now that reminds me of another story about a benefit I was asked to when I lived in Utah...oh, it's too late for me to go into that one...

[Bear Davis]

A while back one of my songs was played for the troops before they were sent out on hundreds of missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I later licensed that song to a record company. Had another song licensed for a video game, and got 2 songs on SiriusXM in their general rotation for almost a year. Only other interesting thing would have been getting an invite to play for Chuck Liddell's birthday party which I had to turn down sadly.

Today I just play in my living room for the most part.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

I guess after paying for the rosebuds they were tapped out.

[TallDrink]

Originally Posted by Psalad

Though it's not the point of the thread, Larry's post reminds me of the McDonald's SXSW controversy right now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-co...or-free-2015-3

What a strange world we live in.

I get that as musicians we enjoy our work and that there are people who would (and do) gladly work for free in music, but it is so tiresome when people expect you to work for nothing.

Strangely, that indie band that was ripped off by McDonalds (Ex Cops) is a Danish band... How's that for a peculiar coincidence. I heard an interview with them on the radio yesterday afternoon on Danish radio...

[twbranch]

Is your music licensed under BMI or ASCAP or one of those licensing programs? They would be ideal to keep those Danes from using it without permission.

[futboljim]

Disappointing story, but well handled, sir.

[ac]

Originally Posted by TallDrink

Strangely, that indie band that was ripped off by McDonalds (Ex Cops) is a Danish band... How's that for a peculiar coincidence. I heard an interview with them on the radio yesterday afternoon on Danish radio...

As a listener, you might consider sending a link to this thread to the Danish radio music station you mentioned. They might enjoy reading the "non" responses to Larry's correspondence.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by slewis

My original compositions have been heard by literally dozens of people on a number of phone-answering machines, some years back. You remember those, don't you???

"Please leave your message after the tone". I love that minimalist approach; just one, brief, pure note after a simple, heartfelt and yearning cri de coeur. You, sir, are a genius

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by RustNeverSleeps

You make entirely reasonable and valid points, but neither their initial refusal nor the outcome of this saga surprises me.

Personally I would have been inclined to let them keep the music on the website, subject to them giving sufficiently clear credit to my work. Possibly a link to where my album could be purchased, or something. This on the presumptions that Denmark would be a relatively untapped market for me, and that the exposure of the (mainly Danish) listeners to my music would be more valuable to me than the principle of music being paid for. YMdidV!

On a tangential note: I think the internet amplifies this phenomena. Much of my published work (written) finds its way on line. I post quite a bit of the stuff that has broad appeal for general consumption once I get paid for "first time rights" and it gets published somewhere. But too often the work gets stolen and presented as the composition of someone else without any attribution (this is why I came on rather strong for the counterfeit guitar thread.) When someone points it out to me (or I find it myself), I do go after the offenders. It is always refreshing when someone asks if they can use my work with attribution. If it is a non-profit that uses it in an unedited form with attribution, I almost always give it away. If anyone is profiting, then an honorarium is requested.

[firelegend2]

Originally Posted by RustNeverSleeps

You make entirely reasonable and valid points, but neither their initial refusal nor the outcome of this saga surprises me.

Personally I would have been inclined to let them keep the music on the website, subject to them giving sufficiently clear credit to my work. Possibly a link to where my album could be purchased, or something. This on the presumptions that Denmark would be a relatively untapped market for me, and that the exposure of the (mainly Danish) listeners to my music would be more valuable to me than the principle of music being paid for. YMdidV!

With all due respect, doing just that would only encourage people to think that art should be free. "if I put this up for you, its free advertising!" No, no it isn't.

My father has copy-written photos from the 60's and 70's and deals with this issue all the time. His photos are used in books, documentaries and websites all the time without permission. Its a sad thing when people feel they can use music and images and art however they like and claim it has "free advertising" for someone.

[T Texas]

Right on Larry. If the global music community would follow your lead, artists would stop being taken advantage of.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by TallDrink

Strangely, that indie band that was ripped off by McDonalds (Ex Cops) is a Danish band... How's that for a peculiar coincidence. I heard an interview with them on the radio yesterday afternoon on Danish radio...

Originally Posted by ac

As a listener, you might consider sending a link to this thread to the Danish radio music station you mentioned. They might enjoy reading the "non" responses to Larry's correspondence.

Interesting intersection of similar stories, along with the whole geographical/country thing...

...except in my case it was the State, and not a corporate entity, seeking to use a unique creation for free.

Both, of course, have plenty to spend, as evidenced by everything surrounding the use of the music.

My music is registered with ASCAP, but there ended up *not* being an issue getting the music down...it only took the two fairly firm emails from me. I was prepared to try to contact some sort of Danish legal service (or better yet, a newspaper), had they not complied.

[PTC Bernie]

Uppity darn American! How dare you ask for fair and proper compensation for your intellectual property!

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Psalad

Though it's not the point of the thread, Larry's post reminds me of the McDonald's SXSW controversy right now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-co...or-free-2015-3

What a strange world we live in.

I get that as musicians we enjoy our work and that there are people who would (and do) gladly work for free in music, but it is so tiresome when people expect you to work for nothing.

That agency name sounded like something a "Nigerian prince" would use when trying to send me my inheritance.

This is about Larry's exchange with the Danish government, so I won't derail it but I thought the McD example was a relevant parallel - a big group trying to get free work but then insultingly trying to tell the "giver" that it's good for them to give it for free.

It reminded me of a really distasteful experience I had with an investment-owned company. I had an engineer. He got a degree and had some relevant experience. He then came worked for us for a year. After I year I submitted a request to get him his first annual raise. We hired him out of college for a reasonable starting salary. The guy became a "rock star" in engineering and a total success, saving us lots of money.

I put in for a modest (normal) annual raise. It was denied.

I argued about it and was told (seriously I was told this) "he worked for us for a year with no experience. We benefited him by giving him a year of experience that WE paid for. We paid to give him work experience. He should be thankful for the learning and experience that we generously gave him."