Adirondack - Worthy Upgrgrade?

[handers]

Depends on the piece of Adirondack. Depends on whose building with adir. My guess is that for manufactured guitars it makes no difference. But with a guitar where the builder is selecting the top wood and building the guitar specifically around the characteristics of each piece of wood it will make a substantial difference. I didn't say better. It worked pretty amazingly for a Froggy I own.

Hans

[Tony Burns]

Ok - my Mike Franks Brazilian legacy ( Brazilian rosewood )has a red spruce top ( adirondack )it is a tone monster -very quick response, very bright . many older vintage instruments used adirondack years before sitka - it was the norm .
Thou a very tight aged sitka top is a joy beyond joys -the red spruce top on the M. Franks is perfect for that guitar . From what ive heard its also wonderful on a well build african hog back and sides . The quality of the top is what makes the difference.

[Jarlaxle]

For what it's worth, for Taylors adirondack braces are a VERY desirable (not to mention popular) upgrade, not the top, just the braces. I am considering a custom Martin build but don't think they have this as an option.

[D35burst]

Originally Posted by GuitarLight

No I do not think it is worth it not at all. Martin and all makers know sitka is king. Guitars sales are down. and no wonder when a decent guitar just begins at $1500 quickly rising to $5000. So different tops and sides are introduced into their smoke screen line up... along with exorbitant price tags to line their pockets and beguile the uninformed. I don't even think Adirondack sounds good.

Sitka is King... interesting perspective.
Personally I'm more than happy with my D35 just curious about the Addi as I'm finding it becomming more and more prominent although I do suspect the supply must be somewhat scarce because most red tops i'm seeing are quite wide grained still.

[Gypsyblue]

Originally Posted by D35burst

Has anybody out there gotten rid of a guitar because they wer'nt happy with the characteristics of Addi and favored Sitka?

Me. I sold my Collings OM2A because it was to bright. I just couldn't truly relax with it and bond with it.

It was the loudest OM I'd ever owned and it had great bass and that beautiful thick "Purr" on the open D & G strings. But it was also just a little to bright and edgey. The guitar was Adi and Rosewood. If it was an electric guitar I would have turned the treble knob down.

I bought a '95 Taylor 512 and still play it and like it alot. And then a Blueridge BR163 that I love.

Blueridge seems to make guitars that sound the way I like them to.

However, I just got a beautiful Blueridge BR183A on Monday and it is also Adi and Rosewood and I'm loving it. It's loud and has plenty of bass and the middle strings (D & G) have that thick "Purring" sound that I love and it's not to bright.

I'm starting to think that it's the best guitar (for me) that I've ever owned.

So Sitka, Engleman, Adi....it really depends on the individual guitar, IMO.

[Aloha Goodall]

Judge for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMh6sfVM22M

[Taylor007]

In my experience the answer is "yes" Adirondack is worth the extra charge. But it depends. Specifically it depends on the builder and of course the actual wood itself.

That said, I'm a big fan of high quality Sitka. Especially in the hands of builders like Bill Collings. That said, Mr. Collings' offerings in Sitka, and other tone woods for that matter, are usually nothing short of outstanding.

Guitars that are built without much attention to detail won't produce as much of difference regardless of the tone woods used. Not all wood is created equal and to just slap a piece of Adirondack on a top without doing everything the builder can to get the most out of it is probably not much more than an attempt to increase profit margins.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by devellis

Honestly, I think it's a case-by-case thing. Both Sitka and red spruces can be great. It depends on the specific specimens and which strengths you want the guitar to have. Generally, I think Sitka is a bit warmer and red a bit clearer and brighter but the build will make a huge difference.

I agree with Bob here about it being a case-by-case thing. But its funny how people use terms differently when describing guitar tone. I think of warm as meaning "more overtones", which you'll find with Adirondack, and clearer and brighter as meaning "more fundamental", which is an attribute of Sitka. Oh well, is it any wonder why I go through life so confused?

Bill

[billgennaro]

Hopefully we can all agree that the opinion of Dana Bourgeosis should be listened to. Here is an excerpt from his web site on Red Spruce:

"Red spruce is relatively heavy, has a high velocity of sound, and has the highest stiffness across and along the grain of all the topwoods. Like Sitka, it has strong fundamentals, but it also exhibits a more complex overtone content. Tops made out of red spruce have the highest volume ceiling of any species, yet they also have a rich fullness of tone that retains clarity at all dynamic levels. In short, red spruce may very well be the Holy Grail of topwoods for the steel-string guitar."

Not saying that his is the last word on the subject, and I personally like all the spruces equally, but he is a pretty respected when it comes to topics like this. I do agree that if you want a more fundamental tone then Sitka might be the leading contender. If you like a more richer tone, more overtones, maybe Red Spruce.

Fun to discuss, anyway.

Bill

[mattmoo]

In the end, of course it is personal preference for a given wood, on a given build, and all the endless variations of nature, "hidden" in the result.

I've owned about 8 Collings. All but one either German or Adi. And yet, the very best Collings I ever played, and it wasn't even close, was Sitka. No varnish. No custom anything. Just an off the shelf OM with Sitka. An amazing sounding beast.

I've never gotten rid of a guitar because I said to myself, "I don't want that Sitka or Redwood or Hog on my top". I got rid of guitars because I had others I liked better. Starting in 2004 I went on a quest to find a great guitar. I've got to guess 20 in total, give or take one or two. And now there are two left. The cream. Both Adi topped. Keeping them had nothing to do with that fact. It was only the sound. With 20 completely different guitars, who knows, I might have two Sitkas left and all the rest gone.

I like how Adi ages too. I have to think it is a good five years before you know it's true voice.

Your mileage may vary.

[picassov7]

Originally Posted by handers

It worked pretty amazingly for a Froggy I own.

Michael works magic with Adirondack. I explained to him the sound I wanted from my guitar and he recommended a model K with Adirondack top. I am very glad that I listened to him.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by cke

I agree with Devellis

But where are you seeing $200 upcharge? Martin is $800 Collings $1000 bourgeois charges $1200. If you mean the Chinese guitars,,I don't think they are getting the best, and a Lot of red spruce comes from northern Canada and is softer than the primo stuff. Much euro spruce is said to be as stiff or stiffer.

Agreed - Just been in a discussion about this on the Collings forum. If a good set of Adi costs $300 why is ther a $1000 up charge.

Frankly I have two very similar guitars on with sitka and the other with adi and the sitka top is louder, and I prefer the tone.

[handers]

Originally Posted by picassov7

Michael works magic with Adirondack. I explained to him the sound I wanted from my guitar and he recommended a model K with Adirondack top. I am very glad that I listened to him.

Froggy Bottom Guitars build over 80% of their guitars with adirondack, some of it from locally fallen trees in VT. They also build with german spruce. I think the reputation of FBG and the high percentage of guitars they build with adirondack speaks to the excellence that this wood can offer. Adirondack is not a financial upgrade with them, simply a choice from the buyer. That said, their guitars are in the more expensive range.

hans

[NEGuy]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

Hopefully we can all agree that the opinion of Dana Bourgeosis should be listened to. Here is an excerpt from his web site on Red Spruce:

"Red spruce is relatively heavy, has a high velocity of sound, and has the highest stiffness across and along the grain of all the topwoods. Like Sitka, it has strong fundamentals, but it also exhibits a more complex overtone content. Tops made out of red spruce have the highest volume ceiling of any species, yet they also have a rich fullness of tone that retains clarity at all dynamic levels. In short, red spruce may very well be the Holy Grail of topwoods for the steel-string guitar."

Not saying that his is the last word on the subject, and I personally like all the spruces equally, but he is a pretty respected when it comes to topics like this. I do agree that if you want a more fundamental tone then Sitka might be the leading contender. If you like a more richer tone, more overtones, maybe Red Spruce.

Fun to discuss, anyway.

Bill

Yes, fun to discuss.

When assessing the virtues of red spruce, I would tend to emphasize Dana Bourgeosis’ statement that it “retains clarity at all dynamic levels.”

In my experience, it does, and I have honestly never experienced this with Sitka-topped guitars.

[docwatsonfan]

I have an Eastman E10-OM
and an Eastman E6-OM
these are very similar, with the 6 having sitka spruce, and the 10
having an adirondack spruce top

I would say the 6 is like a 1969 VW beetle , and the 10 is like 1969 Camaro
with a 396

with that said, both guitars are awesome, both can accomplish the same thing, it is just what kind of "ride" you are after!