All Hog 12-fret Dread?

lar · #1 11-10-2021, 03:20 PM

I know, it's a difficult recipe.

Hog because I recently fell in love with a Guild D-20. It was fantastic, and I think the 'D' in its name has a lot to do with that: excellent projection, you can free the vibration throughout it's body, and your body!

But I think I would like the lesser reach of a 12 fret - or at least try one out. Which means no Martins because they don't move the fretboard down (to my understanding).

Do these even exist outside of custom builds?

FingahPickah · #2 11-10-2021, 03:32 PM

Just one example....

https://reverb.com/item/40151069-mar...tic-guitar-d15

Horsehockey · #3 11-10-2021, 03:37 PM

14 Fret but I thought I’d throw this out there:

https://vermont.craigslist.org/msg/d...405816921.html

I know nothing about the guitar or the seller, I just spotted this when I was browsing CL this morning.

Silly Moustache · #4 11-10-2021, 03:39 PM

"Which means no Martins because they don't move the fretboard down (to my understanding)".

huh?

Martin designed the 12 fret dread. They will be standard scale, the frtboard will go down to the soundhole and, of course the bridge will be more centrally mounted than the later 14 fretters.

Martin did do an all hog 12 fret dread at one time maybe a 17 series? Don't think they do any 12 fretters now sadly.

llew · #5 11-10-2021, 05:12 PM

Check with Ted at LA Guitar Sales...he used to do a custom shop12 fret Martin D-15SM dread in both full gloss and satin finish.

Methos1979 · #6 11-10-2021, 05:20 PM

You mean like this? Not difficult. Just a custom. Basically a D1 Authentic but built using all flamed hog. It was an incredible guitar.

lar · #7 11-10-2021, 08:45 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'll have to research some of these.

Silly, what I was referring to is that Martin 'typically' (but not all the time? because that D15s looks otherwise) creates a 12 fret neck by expanding the body out (up), not by moving the bridge down. Which means that the 'reach' is the same (the guitar has the same length). But now that I say that, maybe that applies only to OM/OOOs, and not D's?

Street Glider · #8 11-10-2021, 09:05 PM

Years ago, I had talked to Chris Wellons at Taylor about building a 12-fret Mahogany dread, with an Adi top and slotted headstock.

Then life happened, and I had to pull the plug on the whole idea...

Zissou Intern · #9 11-10-2021, 10:36 PM

Martin used to build the D15S, which is a 12 fret, long scale, all mahogany (or all sapele) dreadnought. It has a 1 3/4" nut and the Martin "low profile" neck. There weren't a lot of them made compared to the 14 fret D15.

ben · #10 11-10-2021, 10:39 PM

Collings has made at least one, if not a handful:
https://artisanguitars.com/products/...brace-id-11593

llew · #11 11-11-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben

Collings has made at least one, if not a handful:
https://artisanguitars.com/products/...brace-id-11593

I bet that's an amazing guitar!

gmel555 · #12 11-11-2021, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lar

Thanks for the responses. I'll have to research some of these.

Silly, what I was referring to is that Martin 'typically' (but not all the time? because that D15s looks otherwise) creates a 12 fret neck by expanding the body out (up), not by moving the bridge down. Which means that the 'reach' is the same (the guitar has the same length). But now that I say that, maybe that applies only to OM/OOOs, and not D's?

Yes, only applies to the 000's on which Martin extends the body to meet the neck at the 12th fret, so the reach is the same on those regardless of 12 or 14 frets.

Silly Moustache · #13 11-11-2021, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lar

Thanks for the responses. I'll have to research some of these.

Silly, what I was referring to is that Martin 'typically' (but not all the time? because that D15s looks otherwise) creates a 12 fret neck by expanding the body out (up), not by moving the bridge down. Which means that the 'reach' is the same (the guitar has the same length). But now that I say that, maybe that applies only to OM/OOOs, and not D's?

Hi, I fear that you are looking at matters from the wrong "end".

The original dreadnought was the 12 fret version. It was a continuation of the 2,1,0,00,000 designs of standard Martin designs. All 12 fretters of course. Originally Martin only made them for the Ditson company (and not many at that!)
Ditsons went kaput in about 1929. Martin had the moulds and other stuff, and decided to make their own branded dreadnought introduced in 1931, initially as te D1 and D2, then the D18 and D28.

They had introduced their first "Orchestra Model" (a 14 fret 000 with a squished down body to expose the 13th and 14th frets).
It had a thinner neck to cater for tenor banjo players needing to transfer as dixieland bands transitioned to swing.

It was not that successful (Gibson archtops were better suited) and they discontinued it in 1933. They didn't sell well.
In 1934, Martin tried again by doing the same trick with the dreadnought - i.e. reducing the length of the body by 15/16" to accommodate the 14 fret design. This eventually caught on with the rhythm guitarists of folk combos but never found favour in dance bands.

A 12 fret dreadnought will have the ORIGINAL length of 20 & 15/16." The bridge placement of the original is better than on the 14 fret.

lar · #14 11-12-2021, 11:52 AM

Thanks for setting me straight. So it sounds like what I want doesn't exist, at least not in Martin-land (a hog dread with less reach by moving the bridge lower, resulting in 12 frets).

It's interesting that Martin always makes 12-fret by messing with the upper bout and not moving the bridge down for a 'better' placement (more towards the middle of the lower bout).

When you say the original 12-fret bridge placement was better, I assume it changed only slightly (fractions of an inch).

Come to think of it, I don't ever remember seeing a D-model with the bridge in the center of the bout. Where I have on OOO/OMs and it's very obvious.

Glennwillow · #15 11-12-2021, 05:49 PM

Taylor is one manufacturer I know of that shortens up the neck and moves the bridge location on the body so that the reach to the neck for the player is reduced somewhat. I have a 2010 Taylor 12-Fret and I frankly find this short reach to be very awkward, where my left elbow is constantly tucked into my body. But depending on your size, this shorter reach might be a good thing.

And there are versions of Taylor 12-fret guitars that are all mahogany. However, all the bodies on these 12-fret guitars tend to be smaller. There are no Grand Auditorium bodies from Taylor in the 12-fret design that I am aware of. Most of the 12-fret guitars have Grand Concert bodies, probably because of the character of the sound. I am guessing that a larger body, Grand Auditorium might be a little dark sounding, but who knows...

My Taylor 12-fret is like an 812CE but with the 12-fret design neck and different placement of the bridge on the body, and it has quite a warm tone. I personally would not want a bigger body because it's already plenty bassy as it is.

However, I bet that if you called Taylor, they would make a custom for you. Or, you might want to find a local Taylor dealer and try some 12-fret designs out and see what you think of what they have in the store.

- Glenn