D vs OOO size for live performance, opinions

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by JerryM

I should also mention quite often we have a back up guitar, a Martin D18 that plays with us. I find the Mandolin to be the loudest of all, it really projects out there for such a small size.

Are you playing plugged In or not?

[JerryM]

straight acoustic, although I do have a Gibson J35 with the Baggs but have never plugged it in, don't even own an acoustic amp. Maybe someday....

[Chordchunker]

Originally Posted by JerryM

straight acoustic, although I do have a Gibson J35 with the Baggs but have never plugged it in, don't even own an acoustic amp. Maybe someday....

SOunds like you and I play similar music. I gig with a hot fiddle player and occasionally do a full acoustic swing band. I play a 6 hour out door gig weekly at a large hotel balcony for around 150 people and have for 10 years. I started with a Gibson J-185 and now use a D-18 and 000-15m(w/pickup) which work well. Mainly we play fiddle tunes and trad jazz/swing with all sorts of stuff thrown in the loop. When it`s real loud I plug into a fishman mini just to give the guitar a boost for breaks.

I`m sort of in the same boat and have thought about taking a handfull of guitars and trading them in on a nice OM or even a rnd shouldered Gibson-like box. Love my 000-15 and probably the wise thing is for me just to bring two guitars.. d-18 for fiddle tunes, 000 for everything else.. For most of my other gigs I use an es-175 or a tele.

I would think your J-35 would be great for backing up fiddle tunes. Does it not have the punch for when you take a ride/break?

[ecguitar44]

Originally Posted by JerryM

I should also mention quite often we have a back up guitar, a Martin D18 that plays with us. I find the Mandolin to be the loudest of all, it really projects out there for such a small size.

It's a common misconception that size equates to volume. It does not. There are many factors they contribute to the volume of an instrument.

The trumpet is often the loudest orchestral instrument...it's rather small.

A violin is louder than a cello.

[fullsmile]

Frequency has a lot to do with it but the strings which generate the frequency you hear will likely be the same so will like create a very similar frequency, in this case size is a major contributor to volume. A dread will move a greater volume of air than an OM and will almost always be louder. I would say to go with the dread if you are playing lead unamplified. I never play plugged in so I can't really comment about that but I would get an adi top as well if you need better projection, especially if you go with an OM.

[JerryM]

You guys all make valid points and contribute worthwhile information and I appreciate it, my J35 for practice and vocals is fine and perhaps if I get a loud box to plug it in it would work for breaks, and all in all for the 1200 bucks I paid for it a fairly good guitar. Upside I like the neck shape and scale and the 3 lbs. Downside not enough sustain and it just doesn't have the special bass sound I got when I had a Martin and Bourgeois,,,,good guitar but lacking in some areas.
I also realize it's a step down from my old guitars so can't expect too much.
I went yesterday and played a 09 Santa Cruz VS and it was very nice to play and had nice tone, then I played a Collings CJ short scale and it was nicer yet and seemed to have more punch. No pick up in either. I wished they had had the Martin HD2812fret VS but none in the store, that is the one I can't find to try. I also tried a D18 std. scale but the 1 3/4 nut kind of compensated for it somewhat and I liked it quite a bit, definitely had the tone and volume. I still prefer the short scales but can live with the full scale if the nut is wide.
It's a young one, the D18 is not real expensive which is a plus, the D18 short scale I had would have been the perfect dread IF it had the wide nut. I guess one could be custom ordered. I did notice Elderly has a HD28 with the 1 3/4 nut may be worth considering as well.
Any one done business with Elderly?? their prices seem a touch higher but if the service is good that's ok, they say pro set up anyone experienced this? Some places say that and you get stock. One thing I notice on a lot of Martin guitars is the nut slots need adjustment, some I have played were hard fretting in first position.

[JerryM]

Good point Fullsmile I have pretty much decided for the type of playing I do which is 80% full on fiddle tunes and rags the full size guitar is the best way for me to go, like the idea of a smaller one but the round shoulders and slopes and dreads seem to have the poop I need. Since I have never had a smaller size guess I won't miss it. Now just to find the one....

[Chordchunker]

It`s hard to go wrong with a D-18 you really like. Mine is a fiddle tune machine.

I have to plug my 000-15 in when I play my outdoor gig as it doesn`t have even near the volume or cutting power of my D-18 though it is a blast to play. Not even close really and I have A/B`d them more than once. The fiddle player I play with has nice fiddles and a powerful tone so he is loud as the dickens .. If I could find a 000 that was as loud or boomy as a d-18 without costing a zillion dollars I`d be on it.

My Pacrim gypsy jazz guitar is certainly loud and cutting but not great for old timey fiddle tunes. Works well for Texas style fiddling but over-all not a very versatile guitar.

[JerryM]

I hear you, the tone on my last one was just killer...better I think than the 28 although subjective but it was just soooooo Bluegrass!!
The other advantage is if a mike hits it or some dummy swings around with a headstock I won't be in the corner convulsing they don't cost an arm and leg.
To me the problem with one of the finer boutique made guitars is I am super paranoid when I use them and am always worried about a ding, I need to use my guitars to actually play out so to nice is too nice.....
The new D18;s I have heard of late really project and since they finally woke up and put a wide nut on the things it has moved back up in my mind.
If I was just a collector of guitars like many it would be fun to have them but I am 71 now so who am I going to collect for anyway, I just like to play. Thank God at my age my hands are just as limber as 20yrs ago and I still can!

[scriv58]

Clapton mtv unplugged 1992 playing a 000 martin
i like what these do for the milk carton kids http://www.eartrumpetlabs.com/

[JerryM]

Have struggled over this decision for some time and looked at a hundred guitars on here and everywhere else I could find, and come up with one that might possibly do the trick, no electronics in it but I could always have it done late if required.
Don't know if anyone on here has personal experience with the guitar but if so would appreciate any comments.....it is a Bourgeois Country Boy OM short scale, found a couple on sale. Not cheap by any means but looks like a nice guitar for what I am needing. Wish I could play and hear one first but as usual no one in the area has any so it would be a mail order again. With only one exception though I have had pretty good luck.
Has anyone dealt with Guitar Exchange??? thanks, Jerry

[fullsmile]

Bourgeois is a great guitar and you cant go wrong with any guitar they make. They don't seem to have the same punch IMO that a collings will have especially if it has an ADI top so volume might not be as much. I know that gets kind of pricey and buying a brand you have never played is risky also Ive never played the exact model you asked about. Kind of off topic but have you tried the new J-15? I played one the other day and it was a great guitar. I realize you already have one Gibson but with the walnut it is an entirely different sound and a lot less money than the others you are looking at. Maybe its just me but for a stage guitar where things get damaged a 3-4k guitar just sitting there waiting for some drunk guy to fall on would leave me a little nervous. I have a J-45 and can only say that I am not sure it is any better than the J-15. Then again you may be looking for that booming base that only seems to come in Rosewood.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by cke

The box size is very different. One convention terms a 000 a small body and theD as a large body. Fairly discernible difference in ultimate volume.

So it depends on the room and the style. Both are very fine guitars. Play what you like and accept the compromises

No, sorry but it is NOT about volume - it is about bass/treble balance and the differing string gauges.

A 000 (Auditorium) model is perfectly adequate for playing to a pretty large (listening) audience, but if you flat pick, and play with banjos, etc., then a dreanought might well be more comforting.