D vs OOO size for live performance, opinions

JerryM · #1 05-02-2014, 08:59 PM

Hi all, I am trying to decide between a OOO Martin GE and a Martin HD 28 from Elderly with a 13 /4" nut. Both are pretty similar but would kind of like to use a smaller body guitar but am concerned about volume in a live setting. Neither is equipped with a PU. It seems when you look at the specs they are not to far apart from one another except the OOO is a short scale, same nut width. I have really come to love the short scale guitars, the HD 28 is full scale but the wide nut makes up for it a little in my mind. I don't like the narrow nut on the std. models. I have always had full size dreads but seems like the smaller would be real comfortable to play.
Anyone use a OOO for live stage?? I play with mandolin and fiddle ...thanks, Jerry

cke · #2 05-02-2014, 09:15 PM

The box size is very different. One convention terms a 000 a small body and theD as a large body. Fairly discernible difference in ultimate volume.

So it depends on the room and the style. Both are very fine guitars. Play what you like and accept the compromises

Teleman52 · #3 05-02-2014, 09:19 PM

I gotta say a dread is gonna be the best for playing with a mandolin and fiddle. I think the 000 or om will share too much sonic territory with the mando and fiddle.

An om or 000 does cut much better than a dread and is better suited than a dread for playing with say a "normal band" (drummer, bass, other guitars)

But a fiddle and mandolin cut even better.

I would pick a dread in that situation, it doesn't have to be a typical martin dread though, a slope shoulder would work very well

JerryM · #4 05-02-2014, 09:42 PM

Thanks guys, My third option is a Martin D slope 12 fret vs I have looked at. Very difficult decision as i can only afford one..

Teleman52 · #5 05-02-2014, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM

Thanks guys, My third option is a Martin D slope 12 fret vs I have looked at. Very difficult decision as i can only afford one..

I think the 12 fret martin would be great. I gotta admit I'm gassing for a 12 fret martin d so my opinion may be biased. Is it an 18 or 28. I think both would do well in that context

Wade Hampton · #6 05-02-2014, 10:40 PM

Jerry, I used a short scale 000-42 as my main stage guitar for over twenty years, and still use it about half the time, though I've subsequently augmented and traded off with a long scale OM, a Gibson Advanced Jumbo (AJ) and a custom Klepper KJ, which is luthier Howard Klepper's interpretation of the AJ style in black walnut.

The great thing about all of these guitars as stage instruments is that they're all an absolute dream to mic, particularly when compared to Martin-style square-shouldered dreadnoughts. I have good quality pickups on all of them (LR Baggs and K&K's,) and also use an instrument mic onstage as well as a vocal mic.

By contrast, square-shouldered dreads require a great deal of EQ'ing to reach anything like a natural sound. But with my Triple O and OM, and my AJ and KJ, I can walk out, plug in, tell the sound tech to run both the mic and the DI feed dead flat in the mix, and get a wonderful stage sound every time.

It's because all of these guitar designs I mentioned have a very even, balanced tonal response. There's not so much bass response that it overwhelms the mic and creates howling feedback, like what you get with a square-shouldered dread, but the bass response comes through clear and true.

So my experience is that Triple O's and OM's are MAGNIFICENT stage guitars, really much more versatile than most players expect. This may be because of the tendency by many players to define Triple O's as fingerstyle guitars, and ONLY fingerstyle guitars, but believe me when I tell you that I play some robust and rambunctious music onstage, and find that a Triple O is the perfect guitar to play it on.

Short version: you can use a Triple O for any kind of music you like, and it'll sound great. Along with the OM, which I consider a variation on the same theme, the 14 fret Triple O is probably THE single most versatile steel string acoustic guitar design on the planet.

Hope this helps.

Wade Hampton Miller

JerryM · #7 05-02-2014, 11:54 PM

Wade, thank you very much for the voice of experience, that is really what I was hoping for, I would really like very much to try a smaller body guitar as I notice due to my size the dreads are very large and a bit boomy, also I notice of late a little shoulder neck discomfort after a few hours of practice. I am fairly short at 5'9" and my wife says my guitars look huge on me when standing.
I was playing a Bourgeois D and it was a wonderful guitar in most respects but I must say for vocal accompaniment it was a little boomy and lots of overtones going on. I just recently switched to a Gibson round shoulder and it seems much more suited to vocals and I have come to really enjoy the shorter scale. Seems like it takes some of the fatigue out after a long session.
I have been looking at the Martin OOO18 1935 Sunburst GE with the 24.9 scale and 1 3/4 nut. I just can't deal with the narrow 11/16 nut width, have tried many times and sold many guitars over the years I dearly loved but hated the narrow nut so I won't go that route anymore.
I really enjoy the Martin tone, I had a D18 std. and a D18 Short Scale and both had the 11/16 nut so I sold them. Now I am in the market seriously for the best guitar to suit my needs as possible.
Also considering a real nice Collings CJ short scale but I still prefer the Martin tone, just always seems special to me maybe because I listen to so much blue grass. I play fiddle tunes , rags, and old style country so Martin has always had that special timber to the bass you always hear. The Collings is also a Very nice guitar but back to the larger body again almost the exact size of my Gibson.
Thanks again Wade and everyone else, opinions are important in helping make a decision sometimes, final one is my own of course but it's easy to get confused and a headache with these purchases as it's expensive...............

krisls · #8 05-03-2014, 12:01 AM

Haven't owned a dread for years. If you need the extra oomph for acoustic Bluegrass or similar then probably look that way. Otherwise an OM/000 or similar will do it just fine especially plugged in where body size does not make that much difference.

My two are a custom 000/OM size and a Tak Nex/MiniJumbo which is very similar just slightly bigger in the lower bout. Both work perfectly for everything I've needed to do for more than a few years.

Kris

JerryM · #9 05-03-2014, 12:03 AM

Thanks Kris..much appreciated, well time to walk my pup and hit the sack gdnite y'all...............Jerry

The Old Gaffer · #10 05-03-2014, 08:17 AM

If you are playing unamplified, I don't think you can do much better than a 12-fret Martin dreadnaught. The ones that I have played really had the volume and tone to hang with a mandolin and fiddle. In fact, the best guitars I ever played in that regard were a pair of older Martins, a D-18S and D-28S. If you are going to amplify the instruments, I would choose based on tone and how it sits in the mix. You should take a good look at other quality guitars. Lots of people prefer a Gibson J-45 when playing with those instruments.
FWIW, I play with fiddlers and mandolins, and I have found that (for me) my Guild D40 Bluegrass Jubilee (Adirondack top, mahogany B&S) really shines in that setting, even a bit more so than my Martin HD-28V. I think that Adirondack/mahogany is a great combination for that type of ensemble but YMMV. Others swear by rosewood bodies.

Mikeo O · #11 05-03-2014, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM

Hi all, I am trying to decide between a OOO Martin GE and a Martin HD 28 from Elderly with a 13 /4" nut. Both are pretty similar but would kind of like to use a smaller body guitar but am concerned about volume in a live setting. Neither is equipped with a PU. It seems when you look at the specs they are not to far apart from one another except the OOO is a short scale, same nut width. I have really come to love the short scale guitars, the HD 28 is full scale but the wide nut makes up for it a little in my mind. I don't like the narrow nut on the std. models. I have always had full size dreads but seems like the smaller would be real comfortable to play.
Anyone use a OOO for live stage?? I play with mandolin and fiddle ...thanks, Jerry

very different acoustics. I am a 000/OM kind of guy and my buddy is a Dreadnought kind of guy.

I play a bit of mandolin myself.

Try em and see what you dig, and what speaks to you.

Live I play a 00016c RGT

Once you plug an acoustic in it's a whole new ball of wax

roylor4 · #12 05-03-2014, 08:39 AM

I think it depends on the instruments voicing. I cannot speak to playing wit a fiddler but I play in a duo with a banjo/mando player.

My 000 12 fret is a perfect sonic match with a banjo, not so much with a mandolin - I'm not sure I could put into words why though. My Eastman om is a great fit with both.

Not sure how an om would work with a fiddle, but mine does the job I need it to.

JerryM · #13 05-03-2014, 08:44 AM

thanks guys I hear what your saying , tough one for me as I can't obviously play all these prior to making a decision. If I stick with full size the Collings CJ SS appeals to me and it's a good price , used but like new. After that the 12 fret Martin would be my favorite sound aka Norman Blake, then the OOO for size and comfort. Just need to keep kicking this around a bit. I just can't afford another mistake as these guitars are all expensive and I have seldom been able to get back close to what I pay for them, especially new ones so I am trying to find one on the used market. Some stellar examples of these on the forum classifieds.
Does anyone think the Martin D28vs 12 fret slope would be to large for stage use and heavy??? Have only had the opportunity to play the OOONBlake which I loved but it was light and smaller, have had no luck finding one of those,,,,,,,

HHP · #14 05-03-2014, 08:46 AM

Having played in similar small groups, mandolin and fiddle or mandolin and clawhammer, I might suggest either a 12 fret D or 12 fret 000. They tend to produce a big, wide sound that provides a good backdrop for the other instruments. More than capable of delivering lead lines, but most playing in that context is solid backing.

JerryM · #15 05-03-2014, 08:48 AM

I should also mention quite often we have a back up guitar, a Martin D18 that plays with us. I find the Mandolin to be the loudest of all, it really projects out there for such a small size. I do all the lead guitar parts, as the other guitarist only plays rhythm, we so a lot of rags and reels and bluegrass std. tunes....