Decided to give some high-end Martins a try again...

[rmyAddison]

It still comes down to play what makes you happy.

But I agree with Willie and Ferganzo, I will take my high end Martins over any custom build, they have the voicings I want, with a custom who knows, and I know what my guitars are worth, today and 5 years from now, very stable used market.

To each their own.............

[00-28]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

I took the time to listen to some Halycon Youtubes, and I am the first to convict Youtube for compressed audio, but all Youtubes, while not the best quality, are comparable quality to each other. The guitars are very bare bones, which suits the price point, and they sound responsive, but I also did not hear much depth and richness even with the jumbo. Nice guitars at their price point but I didn't hear anything amazing or special "to me". If somone feels the same way about Martins or any of the big established brands, that's perfectly fine, suit yourself not strangers on this fourm.
...

I came to the same conclusion. I listened to Halcyon Guitar Youtubes to get an idea of what these guitars sound like. They do seem to have a strong volume and airy tone, but they are rather bright, too brash for me, lacking low end complexity. For those who are promoting these guitars as the best thing ever, I can see why you wouldn't prefer the big name brand guitars. ........Mike

This is a thread about tonal preferences ("brighter, airier guitars") disguised as a thread about handbuilt, factory made.

Post-try out of several Lowdens or some stuff from Collings? This thread would simply be "I like my Webbers and Halycons." And that's fine.

[MBE]

Originally Posted by Fret Buzz

This is a thread about tonal preferences ("brighter, airier guitars") disguised as a thread about handbuilt, factory made.

Post-try out of several Lowdens or some stuff from Collings? This thread would simply be "I like my Webbers and Halycons." And that's fine.

Actually, I was commenting on luthier/small-shop guitars in general...which would include Lowdens and Collings by most people's definitions. I have the most experience with the instruments I own, hence my basis for comparison in this test.

I've played both Lowdens and Collings. I wouldn't at all group those two together tonally...but comparing Collings and Martin, I have found Collings to be more responsive, as has been my experience with small shop builders that individually voice instruments.

Furthermore, I was trying to equalize price so as to avoid being accused of making unfair comparisons (15-series vs Halcyon, 28-series vs Webber). Both of those builders you mentioned tend to start in a price bracket $1-2k higher than the guitars I was discussing.

And as for bright and airy guitars...I mentioned the three Taylors that I played that day, which were also in the same price bracket as the Martins and Webbers, and that my feelings regarding their responsiveness and tone compared to the handbuilts were the same as I had felt about the Martins.

[usb_chord]

A lot of the downsides being discussed here about luither-built guitars are mostly solved if you just do your homework...vet your luither.

Concerned about taking a huge hit? Buy used. Concerns about consistency? Get as many of the builder's instruments in your hands as possible. Travel, if need be. Concerns about commissioning a new instrument and not liking what you get? Be sure the builder knows what your expectations are. It helps to know their comfort zone for voicing guitars..

My favorite guitars are generally on the drier side with a very wide dynamic range, great sustain, trebles and a clean mid-range. As result, I've done enough research and played enough guitars to know which luithers I need to pay attention to. I generally know whose work I'm pretty much guaranteed to like and what instruments would be a waste of time and resources to consider.

Admittedly, you really have to be a special kind of guitar geek with a lot of patience to get maximum mileage out of this solo-luither path...especially if you like many different styles of guitars. But for me, the rewards are more than worth the journey.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

A lot of the downsides being discussed here about luither-built guitars are mostly solved if you just do your homework...vet your luither.

Concerned about taking a huge hit? Buy used. Concerns about consistency? Get as many of the builder's instruments in your hands as possible. Travel, if need be. Concerns about commissioning a new instrument and not liking what you get? Be sure the builder knows what your expectations are. It helps to know their comfort zone for voicing guitars..

My favorite guitars are generally drier sounding with a very wide dynamic range, great sustain and trebles. As result, I know generally which builder's guitars are I'm almost guaranteed to like . . . and what instruments would be a waste of time and resources to consider.

Admittedly, you really have to be a special kind of guitar geek with a lot of patience to get maximum mileage out of this solo-luither path...especially if you like many different styles of guitars. But for me, the rewards are more than worth the journey.

Hi Brian...

Such a good post. I think you touched bases with a lot people's concerns when buying from solo-builders (luthiers).

If one does his/her homework and actually plays some examples of their work, it's hard to go wrong with small shop builders.

[usb_chord]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

If one does his/her homework and actually plays some examples of their work, it's hard to go wrong with small shop builders.

Thanks, Larry

I mean, even if the Borges completely bottomed out in the market...who cares? This thing will be buried with me anyways. . .

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

Thanks, Larry

I mean, even if the Borges completely bottomed out in the market...who cares? This thing will be buried with me anyways. . .

Hi Brian...

I never considered the 'market' on any guitar I bought. Guitars are either worth it or not…

[roylor4]

MBE - I have been curious about the Halcyon line and it's good to here another person that really loves theirs. I played lots of the "big 3" before I bought my Larrivee and have never regretted the choice.

That said. my eyes never got as big as pie plates until I picked up some guitars from smaller builders - namely Collings, Santa Cruz and Bourgeois. Even the more affordable ones blew me away. I have no doubt that if and when my skill and wallet will allow for it I will own a hand crafted guitar.

Congratulations on buying a guitar you truly love.

Roy

The samples of Webbers and Halcyons I've heard lean decidely towards the "bright." It's just my opinion BTW and not intended to disparage or doubt your experience of Webbers and Halcyons but at a certain point "bright" can outweigh "responsive"...for a listener.

I was not lumping Lowdens and Collings together (should have included a third really)...simply reacting to your own cited comparisons which are indeed IMO far afield of each other...and then compared to "bright" and "resonsive" guitars. Attempting to triangulate a bit tonally...

Is "responsiveness" always "better" on a guitar that is decidely "bright" and "louder" while lacking depth and textures?

Glad you found guitars you like...but the real deal in handbuilt...ain't at those price points IMO...if we're also talking depth, complexity and textures...even within "brighter" registers. It's debatable that they're "more for your money" if from the gate those are not someone's tonal preferences...even if they're "louder" and "more responsive." In that case they may be simply just "more" of what someone doesn't like.

[Allen Shadd]

Originally Posted by MBE

The 000-15M sounded muffled and short-sustained to me, the HD-28 was bassy with what felt like a giant hole in the sonic spectrum where the midrange ought to be, and the 00-28VS, while certainly the nicest-sounding to my ear, seemed very plain in its sonic signature, as though the essence of the note was there, but without the detail or overtones that draw me in to a guitar's tone.

By comparison to my Webbers and Halcyon, these guitars seemed short on sustain and detail, and quiet. I felt like I had to fight the guitars to bring the notes out, instead of them jumping out of the guitar willingly as on my instruments at home.


This is not meant to bash Martins or those who enjoy them.

After reading most of this thread, always going back to the original post, I still can't determine if the point of the thread is to say that you don't like Martins, or if it is to say that you like your inexpensive custom builds (which could have easily been said without the need to criticize, er, "review" the Martins). Either way, I still can't see how you can make those two paragraphs, followed by the line "This is not meant to bash Martins". The only thing objective any one could take away from your post about Martins is that they are put together nicely. In the end, glad you have a guitar that toots your tooter.

[mjz]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

But you do sort of make the OPs point, here, I think. His post seems to indicate that he had compared similar priced Martins to a Webber and Halycon (Although I can' speak to them as I've never come across one) and found that, TO HIM, the tone of the Martins was wanting in comparison.

Let me repeat that : TO HIM.

So your counter-argument is that the comparison is unfair, because really he should be comparing the Webbers/Halycons with the Authentic series.

Right, to be fair, they need to be compared with a guitar that costs, at least in comparison with a standard Webber EI-Sitka or Mahogany-backed Dread, about twice as much.



TW

(Who owns a Webber, and a couple of Martins too. And who LIKES the Authentic series.)

No counter argument at all. My addition to the thread is just to correct the OP's statement that the Martins he played were "high-end". I think there are plenty of other guitars that deliver more for less for certain people's style.

max

[mjz]

MBE,
Did I miss it?
What style of music do you play?
max

[Rockguy475]

Originally Posted by MBE

They were all superbly put together, and felt great. Nice necks, nice setups, and quality instruments to be sure. I just don't "get" the Martin tone, at least for my style and ear.

You either get the Martin tone or you dont. Sounds like your not a Martin fanboy (which is perfectly fine of course.....i guess) Anyhow there are probably many on this fourm that would have rather prefered those Martins you played over the customs.

Im glad you found a guitar that speaks to you though. That is the most important thing of all!

[kydave]

Originally Posted by mjz

MBE,
Did I miss it?
What style of music do you play?
max

Yep... Are you (MBE) the guy playng in the youtube link in your signature?