The insanity of the car market....

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I'm a Mopar (Dodge/Ram) truck guy, but my wife has a Subaru Forester Wilderness that I drive when we take road trips. It's a cool car except for the multiple "Nanny" beeps that go off all the time to "warn" you of everything under the sun.

And the dealership "upsells" when you go to get an oil change is making the cost of ownership annoyingly high. We may not get another one because of those.

Those are universal complaints now. Beyond what we own - embarrassed to say 4 vehicles thanks to kids - is our work fleet with more brands and vehicles. The Stellantis in fleet and recent rentals I've had seem particularly full of blinking and beeps.

More and more I look forward to no dealers. I'm shopping for a work grade pickup and those options mean conventional dealers and I'm horribly frustrated by a lack of simplicity, and how many with 4 doors are 5.5 and 5 ft beds.

[AX17609]

I don't know if the car market is "insane", but it sure is different. We buy BMW and Toyota. BMW seems to have lost their business focus and now markets something like 19 different models. I can't keep them all straight. Toyota sells far fewer models, but they don't have any inventory. You're expected to order a car sight unseen and either accept or reject it when delivered. Until this whole ICE vs EV vs HEV vs PHEV business gets sorted out, I'm going to stay on the sidelines.

[Gromitspapa]

I was considering leasing a Toyota bZ4X (EV) about 6 months ago and went another way. Earlier this month there were 10-12K mile/year leases for about $150-200/month with $2K up front. I would have laid low for that.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Gromitspapa

Earlier this month there were 10-12K mile/year leases for about $150-200/month with $2K up front. I would have laid low for that.

Dang - I'm moving to your neck of the woods....monthly payments here for almost anything are double that with the same terms.

[imwjl]

From our R2 reservation and likely brands we own I've been polled twice now. It has be excited to not just ditch the traditional sales method but for the R2 and R3 vehicles.

About 9 minutes in is the really neat all seats folding flat. The storage and all windows open fully is pretty neat. The plastics posts we have here? They use recycled ocean plastics and do a wood product upcycling for interior.

Since the initial release news there have been some posts with working versions of R2 and R3 and the R3 looks fantastic.

How much of the vehicle really is domestic is interesting. Beyond made in the heartland (Normal, IL) the CEO even seems quite normal LOL. I can't say if we'll exercise our reservation more than a year out but I sure hope this firm makes it including their innovative vans that will no longer be exclusive to Amazon.

Direct sales, practical products, innovation, I hope they succeed.

On that polling, it is really evident they are considering a modest version of a long range dual motor, and an Android/CarPlay dash. I'd happily take 300+ mile dual motors not wicked quick to achieve the price and range.

Both the R2 and R3 make sense for our future.

[AX17609]

I'm not convinced Rivian is going to be around a heck of a lot longer. Share price is down 93% since initial release. Their P/E ratio is zero because they've got no E. I thought with the Amazon delivery truck order that they'd be doing a lot better, but they're not. I've seen exactly one on the road.

[rule18]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I'm a Mopar (Dodge/Ram) truck guy, but my wife has a Subaru Forester Wilderness that I drive when we take road trips. It's a cool car except for the multiple "Nanny" beeps that go off all the time to "warn" you of everything under the sun.

And the dealership "upsells" when you go to get an oil change is making the cost of ownership annoyingly high. We may not get another one because of those.

I too have a Ram (I think you know that ;-) ) as well as a late model Subaru and Toyota. We've had very different experiences than yours with the two car dealers. They're both owned by the same family and we've always had good interactions. Even when something goes wrong on their part, they work pretty hard to get it right. These guys don't try to up sell too much, it's a great method of losing customers. It's really a crap shoot, we got lucky with our local dealers.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by AX17609

I'm not convinced Rivian is going to be around a heck of a lot longer. Share price is down 93% since initial release. Their P/E ratio is zero because they've got no E. I thought with the Amazon delivery truck order that they'd be doing a lot better, but they're not. I've seen exactly one on the road.

There are lots of the Amazon Rivian vans by me but this is a metro area with good infrastructure, planning and prosperity.

I sure hope they make it even if we don't buy one. It is a good and innovative product line they are trying to get to market. The Rivian where I work is a good product. The quality is very good if compared to the Stellantis, GM and Ford in the fleet.

It would sure help all of us and Rivian if all 50s states changed the laws protecting the dealers. A lot of how sales are done is antiquated and inefficient.

[AX17609]

Today was one of those days when I thought I saw the future. Lacking anything better to do I went over to the Toyota dealer and drove a few RAV4s.

The ICE version was forgettable, with an engine that sounded like a lawn mower. The Hybrid was slow. But, the PHEV, the so-called "Prime" was a wonder. Holy smokes, what a car! It drives like a BMW with a Toyota body. I don't know how they integrated the power train, but the electric part kicks in like a turbo-charger. Step on the gas, and you get instantaneous acceleration. As for handling, I drove it on rain slick roads and it was fine with a nice tight turning radius.

I really had no idea the RAV4 Prime was this good. Set aside all the supposed environment benefits, and I'd buy this car on performance alone. Toyota is going to sell a zillion of these things.