String Bending: Identical Setups, but significantly different ease and results? Why?

[PTL]

I did a search on AGF and did not find any discussion similar to my query so here goes.

Not surprisingly, string bends are easier on some guitars than others. And some also are more responsive tonally to string bends - meaning that they seem to elevate in pitch more obviously than other guitars.

I've always thought that this is primarily due to factors such as scale length, string gauge, string types, fret height, and setup. However, I started noticing that some guitars that seem to have very similar factors still bent very differently. I noticed that guitars that are very responsive to a light touch, all things equal, also bend more easily and is also provide more perceived pitch shift even if the strings are bent the same amount.

Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone care to explain?

My explanation is that a very responsive guitar has a more flexible top - so that when one bends, the top flexes/gives enough to allow the string to shift with lower tension. I never thought that tops really move that much as to be noticeably impact string bending so this is a surprise is true.

For example, I recently played an uber-responsive guitar and the strings bent so easily and responsively that I thought for sure that the scale length had to be 24.9" or shorter. However, the scale length is actually about 25.5". A real surprise.

[Guitars44me]

Don’t forget, fretboard radius, as well as all the other things you listed. Interesting concept

Maybe there’s something to it let’s see what people say.

Hope you’re having fun picking!

Cheers

Paul

[dyingsea]

Pulsation or tension is going to feel different between guitars regardless of similar specs. Different woods, top thickness, bracing thickness, wood rigidity, string break angles you name it.

I've played short scales that feel stiffer than their long scale counterparts. I've played baritones that play as soft as a standard scale.

[Bob Womack]

Fret sizes make a lot of difference. A taller fret will make the string feel more secure in the bend than a shorter fret.

Bob

[rick-slo]

Action setup, string tension and where (at what fret) you are doing the bend. Fret size and polish. Perhaps different neck profiles change perceptions.

[Mandobart]

Lots of factors - gage, scale length, round or hex core, round wound, flat wound, neck shape, neck radius, 12 fret or 14 fret, and much more can affect "bendability."
Some of this was discussed on this recent thread.

[Mr. Jelly]

The EQ of the guitar. Guitars with more midrange are easier to hear the nuances.

[Mark Hatcher]

When a string is stretched it stretches from the tuner post to the bridge pin. The distance between to nut and tuner post and the saddle to bridge pin can make a noticeable difference.

m

[abn556]

I have noticed this quite a bit since I started playing a lot of acoustic. I retired Jan 1st of this year and have spent hundreds of hours on acoustics since then. I playing a lot of blues and pentatonic scales to warm up. I assumed like most people that playing blues on the short scaled 000-18 and LG-0 would be noticeably easier than on the OM-40R, but its not. The Larrivee has a very light touch and a slinky feel to it. Even though its a longer scale its just as easy to bend notes on it as it is on the short scaled guitars.

+

[TedBPhx]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

The EQ of the guitar. Guitars with more midrange are easier to hear the nuances.

This. Despite the hard koa top the mids make the K21e a tone bending machine. The short scale and nickel wrapped round core titanium low tension strings don’t hurt either.

[Sadie-f]

You say identical setups however you don't say what that setup is?

By identical setup I would be thinking same gauge length, same or very close to comparable strings, and not that it matters much for this discussion, but similar action.

I think what you're saying about the top moving is immaterial to the string bend. Sure, the bridge probably moves up measurably when bending notes, however the gauge length change is going to be second or third order.

If the setups are truly identical, then I think what the only difference is your perception and that they're not going to be materially different if you were to measure deflection, force needed to achieve deflection, and change in pitch.

I agree with Bob Womack on height of the frats, however, that has more I think to do with how easy it is it for your fingers to get under the string and slide it.

[EZYPIKINS]

Nut slot height, Fret height, Neck relief, Saddle height, String brand, type, and gauge.

For all things to be equal. ALL things need to be equal.

I set all my guitars up with the same measurements.

First you must measure the fret height, to know how low to slot the nut slots.

Therefore, guitars with higher frets, will seemingly have a taller action. Even though they all measure out the same.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

When a string is stretched it stretches from the tuner post to the bridge pin. The distance between to nut and tuner post and the saddle to bridge pin can make a noticeable difference.

m

This is a really interesting and subtle point—thanks, Mark!

Since action is measured from the top of a fret (typically the 12th), if one guitar’s frets are taller than another’s, the height of the strings off of the fretboard will be higher even if the action measurement is the same. I find strings feel easier to bend when they are closer to the fretboard, so a guitar with lower frets will bend more easily for me all else being equal (scale length, string gauge (and ideally brand, and even age), fretboard radius, etc.).