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Old 09-27-2014, 10:56 PM
ikravchik ikravchik is offline
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This is a post about the subjectivity of sound perception.

I remember walking into Hilo Guitars and Ukeleles a while back, playing their Taylor K14ce and thinking that it's one of the better guitars I've ever heard. So I started looking for a Koa guitar, did a bunch of research and was contemplating buying one. Well, recently I went there again and played that same K14ce. It sounded OK, puzzled I picked up a 514ce and it sounded a lot better, then I went for an 814ce (old one) it sounded even better still! (keep in mind I'm not a rosewood fan)

I left the store thinking about how fleeting the perception of good sound is. In other words it seems that there's no one IDEAL guitar, just a bunch of different instruments that will sound BEST to you on a particular day.

Last edited by ikravchik; 09-27-2014 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:00 PM
Bowie Bowie is offline
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I think that's WHY you have to trust your ears. Every situation warrants a different sound. Trust your ears to recognise what you want at that moment.
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:46 AM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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I completely agree with your conclusion.
Different moods, evolving taste and perception, different background noises and acoustics and different jobs to do make the idea of 1 ultimate guitar an impossibility.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:02 AM
GSM GSM is offline
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my ear perceptions do often change, especially like after an airplane flight, or feeling groggy or ill. It probably also changes according to mood, but it's just a hard concept to quantify.

Let's compare hearing to touch for a second. Let's say they're the same thing and an ugly man is giving you a back massage. Now, a pretty girl is touching your back exactly the same way - which feels better? Weird, huh? We don't feel with our eyes, but in some ways we do. Now, what if you were blind-folded and had no idea who was giving you this therapeutic massage? Would you be able to enjoy it? I think I would - just be imagining it's the pretty girl "It's not gay when you're pretending he's a girl, right? I mean, how could that be gay?" (Jemaine Clement).

Since it's sensory perception mixed with synaptic responses, our precise measurement tool (ear canal) gets tainted by our souls. The way we feel corresponds to the way we interpret our senses. At least somewhat. It's gotta.

Although my tastes seem pretty consistent, in that I always think fret-buzz sounds bad, and too much 3.15kHz can hurt, and I usually tend to favor heavy low-end, so I have a general soundscape that I live inside of, but it changes with the weather slightly.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:21 AM
Mr Bojangles Mr Bojangles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikravchik View Post
This is a post about the subjectivity of sound perception.

I left the store thinking about how fleeting the perception of good sound is. In other words it seems that there's no one IDEAL guitar, just a bunch of different instruments that will sound BEST to you on a particular day.

This is so true! And exactly why we need to own multiple guitars. Oftentimes I'll pick up one of mine that I have been playing frequently, and it just doesn't sound right. So I put it away and take out a different one that all of a sudden has this sparkle and tone that wasn't there a few days ago. It doesn't make sense, but there it is. I call it voodoo...
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:02 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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I totally agree...how a guitar sounds is all in your head. And that is exactly why I never consider the sound of a guitar when deciding on which guitars I buy. You can go into a guitar store and compare the sound of different guitars that are there, but I have always thought that is a big waste of time! How old are those strings? Does anyone there really know which brand of strings is on the guitar?

I find it much more useful to use my eyes. Does the guitar catch your eye? Does it have a lot of run out? Is the grain to your liking? Has the guitar been set up? Is the neck joint solid? What hardware is being used? All far more important to me, than the sound. I can get great sound from any guitar by selecting strings that match that specific guitar.

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Old 09-28-2014, 07:22 AM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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This is a very worthy observation. Amid our wrangling as to whether Larrivee tops Martin tops Gibson tops whomever else, and whether a certain body size lacks bass or mids or highs, we often forget one significant factor: that we hear things differently at different times of the day and different days of the week. I can pick a guitar up one day and think, "Hmmm, maybe it's time I moved this one along," and then pick up the same guitar a few days later or even the same day and think, "What was I thinking? This is a great guitar!" I've gone into GC and played a guitar that I thought was to die for, then gone in the next day to make sure and found it 'nice but I don't think so ..." Our ears do play tricks on us.

Last edited by ewalling; 09-28-2014 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:42 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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....while i too experience hearing changes i trust my ability to judge an instruments sound....if my hearing is "off" i can work through it....adjust for it and still hear what i need to...i would never step off of an airline flight and go directly to a music store and buy a guitar...i wouldn't do it with a head cold either...those are situations that radically impair my hearing...otherwise i'm good to go...i have a number of guitars that i expect to sound a certain way and they always do...hearing is a sense that surely can play tricks on us like any other sense but most of the time its pretty dependable....personally i'm very aware when my hearing isn't quite right so i don't make assessments and decisions at those times...
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:01 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Yes - the "perception is 9/10's of reality" thing hits us all.

My wife almost pulled the trigger on a used banjo at GC. I knew the model and the price was fair, but not great. She played it. I didn't hear what she heard. No better than her other two banjos. I advised her to sleep on it and a/b it against her other similar banjo (openback).

When she went back, the GC banjo was a disappointment. The nice thing is that she is happier than ever with her old gear. For now
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:12 AM
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I have to wonder at any evaluation of a guitar as "a great guitar" or "one of the greatest". I immediately ask "For what?". Depending on playing style, skill level, primary musical content, playing context, etc, the definition of "great" is likely to be so broad as to be meaningless.

Every guitar I have bought in the last 20 tears was selected for specific characteristics needed for specific musical demands. I am as happy with them now as the day I bought them. If anything, my appreciation has increased.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:38 AM
alnico5 alnico5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikravchik View Post
This is a post about the subjectivity of sound perception.


I left the store thinking about how fleeting the perception of good sound is. In other words it seems that there's no one IDEAL guitar, just a bunch of different instruments that will sound BEST to you on a particular day.
The exact reason why I don't own a lot of guitars.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikravchik View Post
This is a post about the subjectivity of sound perception.

I remember walking into Hilo Guitars and Ukeleles a while back, playing their Taylor K14ce and thinking that it's one of the better guitars I've ever heard. So I started looking for a Koa guitar, did a bunch of research and was contemplating buying one. Well, recently I went there again and played that same K14ce. It sounded OK, puzzled I picked up a 514ce and it sounded a lot better, then I went for an 814ce (old one) it sounded even better still! (keep in mind I'm not a rosewood fan)

I left the store thinking about how fleeting the perception of good sound is. In other words it seems that there's no one IDEAL guitar, just a bunch of different instruments that will sound BEST to you on a particular day.
With all respect what your story tells me is to not trust your ears. I'm good with mine.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:02 AM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
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Nothing wrong with getting a little feedback or a second opinion - especially when trying out two or three guitars and trying to pick out the "best" one for a purchase.

But my own opinion and the the way the guitar makes me feel is #1.

DO trust yourself.

If we listened only to our friends and family about what we ought to do, we'd live a safe, boring and gray life.

So follow your bliss as Joseph Campbell would say.

Trust yourself. Live your own life.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:17 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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I don't know, if you're not going to trust your own perceptions what does that leave you?

I'm going on 50 years of playing and I think I know my personal preferences pretty well. I've moved a lot of guitars over the years but not because they were mistakes or I had second thoughts, but rather something better came along and I've chosen to make acoustic guitars something worthy of being in my budget.

I have never bought a guitar then thought a few days later why did I buy that! And I do very careful auditions including an A/B and having a good player with me so I can hear from the front. Only once in 50 years did I buy a guitar without playing it first, and that was due to distance and rarity and worked out fine, so I think I do trust my instincts.

Guitars do have good/bad days, they are organic and affected by temperature and humidity, but I think experienced players can still tell if a guitar works for them or not, even if it needs a set of strings.

The only person I would let buy a high end guitar for me is me, I have a better chance of getting it right than anybody else, even my close playing buddies, and I doubt any of them would allow me to buy a guitar for them.

Yes sound perceptions are influenced by a lot of things, but "don't trust yourself" as a generalization, I respectfully disagree............
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:29 AM
Gypsyblue Gypsyblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
I don't know, if you're not going to trust your own perceptions what does that leave you?

The only person I would let buy a high end guitar for me is me, I have a better chance of getting it right than anybody else, even my close playing buddies, and I doubt any of them would allow me to buy a guitar for them.

Yes sound perceptions are influenced by a lot of things, but "don't trust yourself" as a generalization, I respectfully disagree............
That's the way I feel about it as well.

For me, it's all about how the guitar feels and sounds to me...that's #1.

And no one knows that except me.
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