How much effect can slopey shoulders really have?

[Racerbob]

After reading the thread to this point I find little actual information on how the tone/power of a slop shoulder, by it's very shape ,is supposed to differ from a square shoulder.

It seems the talked about differences here lie in the size of the lower body and the depths at either end of the the body. Those apparently vary from maker/model independently from the presence of the shoulder shape.

If what every builder I have asked about the effect of a cut-away on tone has said, that there is no noticeable effect, then the slight difference in the volume of the upper body due just to the shape would be even less impactful.

So seems to me this is really about looks.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by RJVB

This is just curiosity about something that I've always wondered about and now that Michael Watts posted the video below I feel compelled to ask …

…is there more that's different in these guitars than just the round-off radius of the shoulders? Could it be that we hear the rounder voice with our eyes ... or that we actually hear a different voicing with the shoulder shape mostly a visual label?

Hi RJVB
Of course there is more than just rounding off the radius of the corners.

There are a lot of factors (besides dimension) which affect sound quality, playability, sustain, and sonic dimension.

That's why Martin SHAPED guitars (by other makers) rarely sound like Martins.

[LAPlayer]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

... ??? This is confusing…. A D28 is not usually slope shoulder. And isn’t the tailblock the butt end of the guitar?
Are we talking about the neck heel? And the Keb Mo is louder, even though less cubic inches? Perhaps a larger top and back surface ???

Cheers, Paul

Thanks, I re-read the first sentence and it was confusing so I edited it. The comparison the OP asked about was between square-shoulder (traditional dread) and a slope-shoulder dreads, and that is what was provided. As for the measurements and description they are clear. They show more differences between a standard dread and a slope-shoulder than simple shoulders. All the differences, scale, shoulders, bracing, size.... affect sound.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by LAPlayer

Gibson J45 Keb' Mo', which is more akin to a Southern Jumbo dimensions, has a 3.9375" depth at the tailblock compared to the Martin' 4.875" tailblock depth.
At the heel the Gibson is 4.125" vs. 4.5". When seated, almost a full inch at the tail/rear bout is huge. Funny enough the Gibson is one of the loudest guitars i've played. Size matters.

A Martin dread measures 3.875” deep at the neck heel, and 4.875” deep at the tail. The Keb Mo looks to be more uniform with very little taper from heel to tail. Your point is noted however that the Martin is designed for volume and bass response, while the Gibson is more balanced.

I hear the same things in slope dreads vs square shoulder dreads. Better balance and more midrange with a slope, but my ears still prefer the square shoulder design in almost all situations.

[LAPlayer]

Originally Posted by brencat

,,, I hear the same things in slope dreads vs square shoulder dreads. Better balance and more midrange with a slope, but my ears still prefer the square shoulder design in almost all situations.

True. Since there's even clear dimensional differences between Gibson's own "slopes", it really comes down to comparing two specific guitars because any two slopes may be completely different so very little generalization can be done. Which is why, I always say, you have to play an instrument to know if you will like it. If you do, the rest is secondary.

[LAPlayer]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

.... I have heard a lot of good stuff about the Keb Mo 3.0 but have not played one.

Cheers Paul

I had gone to the shop to sample a 1950s D28. I left with the Keb' Mo'. I didn't get the 28 because it was too similar to my D45. When I brought the Keb' home and showed/played it for my wife, she proclaimed it is the best sounding Gibson acoustic she has ever heard. Although I attribute some of that to the person demonstrating the guitar to her.... . I concur. And, I own a J45 that Ren Ferguson built for me before he left Gibson. The wider nut & 12-fret, among other features, makes this sound and feel sublime.

[LFL Steve]

My ears tend to prefer the sound of whatever my eyes tell them to prefer.

[Robin, Wales]

Err.....

Isn't it just the (normally) shorter scale length of slope shoulder dreads (Gibson J45 scale length rather than Martin D-18 scale length) that makes them more comfortable to play, and moves the timbre somewhat, rather than the slope shoulders compared to square shoulders body shape difference? I expect that a 24.75 scale length D-18 (I think that there were some built for a while) compared to a 25.5" scale length D-18 would give a similar change in comfort and shift of timbre.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Forget the chiropractor - just take a 2x4, cut it to fit from the base of your skull to your tailbone, place it behind you and strap 3 belts around you. One at your waist, one at your arm pits, and last one around your neck. That should fix it...

I think they might just have one of those lying around in the Tower of London, that hasn't been used in about 300 years or so...

[phavriluk]

please delete

[phavriluk]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

My ears tend to prefer the sound of whatever my eyes tell them to prefer.

Truth! Ever hear of 'confirmation bias'? Next we'll be hearing about the tonal superiority of white bridge pins...

[67goat]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Err.....

Isn't it just the (normally) shorter scale length of slope shoulder dreads (Gibson J45 scale length rather than Martin D-18 scale length) that makes them more comfortable to play, and moves the timbre somewhat, rather than the slope shoulders compared to square shoulders body shape difference? I expect that a 24.75 scale length D-18 (I think that there were some built for a while) compared to a 25.5" scale length D-18 would give a similar change in comfort and shift of timbre.

I do not find the comfort part to be a universal truth. For my hand size and arm length, I find a longer scale to be more comfortable to play. Gibson scale seems bunched up to me. It's not drastic, but I have way more guitars with a scale length over 25" than I do guitars under 25".

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

My ears tend to prefer the sound of whatever my eyes tell them to prefer.

This should be a sticky

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

Truth! Ever hear of 'confirmation bias'? Next we'll be hearing about the tonal superiority of white bridge pins...

Na Not really except of course when they have a little circle of abalone in the top then you get a tsunami like swell in lower mids