14 Fret Dreads with larger nut widths

Adamking86 · #1 10-01-2021, 06:53 AM

My father in law is relatively new to playing guitar and wants to up the quality of his guitar so I've been assisting him with figuring out what exactly he wants over the past year. He's played a LOT of guitars and he's settled on these specs as a baseline for his search:
- Dreadnaught
- 14 Fret
- 1 7/8 inch nut width
- a lot more stuff, but I won't bore you with the details.

In reviewing reverb, online custom shop sites, etc, the dread+14 fret+ 1 7/8ths inch combo is non-existent. While 12 fret dreads with that nut size are very common, 14 frets are not.

So.... I figured I'd ask the expert community: why is this? Is this a demand issues, i.e no one wants them? Is there something in the design of a 14 fret dread that creates barriers to wider necks beyond 1 3/4ths inch?

Maybe I'm completely off the mark on the search and there is a huge pool of guitars with this spec that I have yet to uncover?

Thanks everyone!

Malcolm Kindnes · #2 10-01-2021, 08:21 AM

I don't think a 14 fret dreadnaught with a 1 7/8 nut exists unless it was a custom order, I've never seen one and I've been playing guitar for nearly sixty years.

The original dreadnaught and indeed all guitars up until about 1930 had a 12 fret neck and a wider nut, but then everything changed for reasons that are not important to this discussion. I love a wide nut, a chunky neck and wide string spacing at the saddle, so I understand his requirements, but I think he will have to choose between 14 frets or a wide nut or else order a custom build.

I think the "why" is that there is simply no demand for what you describe.

Shadowfox · #3 10-01-2021, 08:29 AM

Honestly, one of the only makers I've seen do that is Furch.

It is a custom option, but also they don't charge any extra for it. They also make a killer Round Shoulder Dread as well as a Square Dread.

Only thing is they tend to be more modern, and so won't be the bass swamp of like a Martin.

Here is the link to the configurator: http://furchguitars.com/en/guitar-configurator/

warfrat73 · #4 10-01-2021, 11:01 AM

Seagull is the only thing that comes to mind. The S6 has a 1.8" nut, I think. I think some of their other models might have wider nuts too.

But, depending on what he already has, it might not be much of an upgrade.

Silly Moustache · #5 10-01-2021, 11:14 AM

You'd have to have one custom built.

14 fret dreads were invented as a larger "OM" -i.e. as rhythm guitars for tenor banjo players, although I hear that Martin are FINALLY - making them with 1 & 3/4" nut widths but don't know the string spacing, and they won't have the other advantages of 12 fretters.

Like many of us to get a decent fretboard width - you need to forget the 14 fret business and look for 12 fret original dreads.

Martin made the D-18/28/35-S (S for standard) dreads from about 1963-1993, although not in great numbers.

Collings make superb original dreads (DS series) with 1 & 13/16" nut widths to 2 & 3/8" string spacing.

You "might" find a Larrivee SD50 or 60 which were originally made with a 1 &7/8" nut width to same string spacing but they have now reduced them to 1 & 3/4" so it would have to be about a 2004 ish build.

You might find this of interest (way back when I had hair!)

https://youtu.be/kfpMciG92oY

Good luck

Lonzo · #6 10-01-2021, 11:52 AM

..a D 18 GE would have at least a 1 3/4 nut width (not quite your 1 7/8... just 1 6/8) ... and quite a beefy neck...

But according to what I read it needs to be 2012 or younger...

They sure sound great, but many don‘t like them for the fat neck

Adamking86 · #7 10-01-2021, 02:08 PM

Thanks for all the feedback! He currently has the 12 Fret D28 Martin Authentic and would probably be looking for a 14 fret in that range. At that price point, custom build is probably the way to go.

The collings recommendation is a good one. I've played their 12 frets and they tend to mirror a traditional 14 fret tone (to my ears).

UncleJesse · #8 10-01-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamking86

Thanks for all the feedback! He currently has the 12 Fret D28 Martin Authentic and would probably be looking for a 14 fret in that range. At that price point, custom build is probably the way to go.

The collings recommendation is a good one. I've played their 12 frets and they tend to mirror a traditional 14 fret tone (to my ears).

-New to playing guitar
-Owns D28 Authentic 1931

Adamking86 · #9 10-01-2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

-New to playing guitar
-Owns D28 Authentic 1931

Hahaha.. I guess new is relative. He’s about 4 years in now. But that is a special guitar for any level of talent or tenure.

Malcolm Kindnes · #10 10-02-2021, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamking86

Thanks for all the feedback! He currently has the 12 Fret D28 Martin Authentic and would probably be looking for a 14 fret in that range. At that price point, custom build is probably the way to go.

The collings recommendation is a good one. I've played their 12 frets and they tend to mirror a traditional 14 fret tone (to my ears).

If he likes the Martin sound he may not like the Collings, I have owned two Collings 12fret dreds a DS2h and a DS1a. I bought them because they have a good reputation and are very well made guitars. I tried hard to like them but found them to be too stiff and tight. I now have a Martin Ditson 111 which gives me the sound I was looking for.

I think before you lay out a lot of money on a custom build with unusual specs, you should be sure which brand you want to go with, as it will not be easy to sell in the future.

ljguitar · #11 10-02-2021, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamking86

My father in law is relatively new to playing guitar and wants to up the quality of his guitar so I've been assisting him with figuring out what exactly he wants over the past year. He's played a LOT of guitars and he's settled on these specs as a baseline for his search:
- Dreadnaught
- 14 Fret
- 1 7/8 inch nut width
- a lot more stuff, but I won't bore you with the details.

Hi adamking…

What about the slope shoulder Martin slot heads? Nope…they have a 1¾" nut.

My friend Martin with his D-18 S…

I'll be checking back in to see is there are any 1⅞" nut Dreadnought that are from the manufactured community (versus the custom builders).

I did have a student once with massively big fingers who bought a rather inexpensive ($400-500) 12 string and had a new nut cut and converted it to 6 string. The nut was likely 1⅞" (wasn't a full 2").

It didn't make him a better player, but it solved his fingertips hitting two strings at once (he needed a custom computer keyboard to keep from hitting 2 keys at a time).

ljguitar · #12 10-02-2021, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfrat73

Seagull is the only thing that comes to mind. The S6 has a 1.8" nut, I think. I think some of their other models might have wider nuts too.

But, depending on what he already has, it might not be much of an upgrade.

Hi warfrat

The S6 (classic version) 1.8" nut is spaced exactly like a 1⅞" nut. It is built in French speaking Quebec, and metric…which when converted to Imperial decimals instead of fractions comes out 1.8 instead of 1¾". I've had my micrometer on several Godin-built guitars and it's the same with all of them.

Bushleague · #13 10-02-2021, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi warfrat

The S6 (classic version) 1.8" nut is spaced exactly like a 1⅞" nut. It is built in French speaking Quebec, and metric…which when converted to Imperial decimals instead of fractions comes out 1.8 instead of 1¾". I've had my micrometer on several Godin-built guitars and it's the same with all of them.

Just wondering if you wrote that exactly the way you meant it? In the past IIRC you've said the 1.8 nut was similar to a 1 3/4. To me the 1.8 nut feels like its got more room than most of the 1 3/4 necks I've played, but I've never put a set of calipers to the strings myself.

I too have seen the 12 string thing done before, and its probably the cheapest method by far. Some of the new Martin and Taylor dreads have 1 3/4" nuts, I find the Martin neck in particular to be very nice.

ljguitar · #14 10-02-2021, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Just wondering if you wrote that exactly the way you meant it? In the past IIRC you've said the 1.8 nut was similar to a 1 3/4. To me the 1.8 nut feels like its got more room than most of the 1 3/4 necks I've played, but I've never put a set of calipers to the strings myself.

I too have seen the 12 string thing done before, and its probably the cheapest method by far. Some of the new Martin and Taylor dreads have 1 3/4" nuts, I find the Martin neck in particular to be very nice.

Hi Bushleague…

I’ve never measured the fingerboard in mm at the nut (took their word as accurate), but I have measured the string spacing. On several Seagulls I measured, the 1.8” string spacing at the nut was identical to 1¾” spacing.

My reference for the 1¾” spacing was my Olson, Bashkin, Kronbauer, a Taylor and my VoyageAir VAOM-06. Variances were less than half of ⅟₆₄” which I attributed to using an under $20 micrometer.

Martin has had 1¾” nuts on/off again during the 20th century. I’m not sure about pre-1900s. I should do some research. And I’m interested in knowing what the earliest Martin fingerboard spacing was at the nut.

I’d be hard pressed to find a time Taylor didn’t offer Dreadnought models with 1¾” fingerboard. Maybe I needed to pay closer attention, but I’ve played a lot of Taylors over the years, and their go-to nut width was 1¾”. It set them apart from Gibson, and Martin.