#1
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Bolt on neck vs. dove tail or other.
What's the deal with the way a neck is attached to the body of a guitar? Are there significant differences in sound or playability between bolt-ons and others, or maybe more or less expensive to build?
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1974 Martin D35 1974 Ibanez AE300 2006 Lowden F25C 2006 Seagull S6+CW Folk 2006 Goodall AKSC 2010 Charis SJC |
#2
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Bolt on is significantly cheaper in terms of labor. Done properly, a bolt on neck should sound as good as a dovetail. A bolt on is also significantly cheaper to do a neck reset than a dovetail if a guitar ever needs one.
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Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01 Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking Breedlove American Series C20/SR Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212 https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music |
#3
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Re; affect on tone, you will see some who feel that only a dove tail neck maximizes a guitars acoustics.
Others point out that there are many world class killer guitars out there with variations of a bolt on neck. My own take is the most important thing is the design and how well it is implemented. There are some shi**ty dove tail guitars out there same as any other design, and many great bolt on design guitars by high end builders.
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"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean, |
#4
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correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Taylor's are bolt-ons (and I've never heard anyone accuse Taylor's of being second-rate guitars!)
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Simon and Patrick Woodland Cedar CW GT A3T Dread Squier Deluxe Stratocaster (Pearl White Metallic) |
#5
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Yes, Taylor's are bolt on necks and they certainly are not 2nd rate guitars.
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Liam F. 👽🖖🏼👑 🎶 |
#6
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"By the way, there's an urban myth that bolt-on necks don't sound as good as dovetailed necks. If you can hear the difference, you have better ears than Ricky Skaggs. The trick is to get a good, solid neck fit, whether the neck is fastened with glue or with bolts. You'd be surprised how many makers use the bolt-on neck design." Dana Bourgeois as per Pantheon/Bourgeois Website
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"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan) |
#7
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Quote:
But if you hang around the forums a few years you will find die hards who are not thrilled with Taylor guitars and bring up the bolt on design as one of their issues. Quote:
And you can add Bill Collings to the list of world class builders who uses a bolt on design.
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"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean, |
#8
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I personally believe it extends beyond the tonal characteristics of the guitar and incorporates a more broad, distinct identity of an instrument. I mean, when I think of neck joints (or design in general for the matter),I associate Martin with dovetail and Taylor with bolt-on. Of course that's an extremely limited focus of thinking, but I suppose my point is that I identify more than just the tone with the neck joint for an instrument.
I'd feel pretty weird playing a dovetail Taylor because they're known for their innovation with the neck joint being one of those things. If I played a bolt-on Martin, that would be weird too even if it sounded the same because part of what I associate with a Martin is that building characteristic. As far as tone goes though I don't necessarily believe there is a fundamental "better" sound with either one. It just contributes to a different voice, not a better or worse voice. |
#9
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I am firmly in the bolt on neck camp.
There are simply too many advantages using bolt on necks and I must confess that my hearing is not that good to hear that special tone in a dovetailed neck!! Keyshore
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1991 Ovation 1719 Custom Legend 2005 Takamine EF400SC 12 string 2007 Bourgeois Vintage OM Madagascar with Bone LB6 |
#10
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There is something about knowing my Larrivees have hand-fitted dovetail joints that makes me think the detail that goes into making them is 2nd to none.
I don't know if there is a difference in tone between bolt on or dovetail, but they sure do sound great!
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1972 Yamaha FG200 My 1st guitar 2003 Yamaha LL500 2007 Larrivee JCL 40th Anniversary Edition 1998 Larrivee OM05-MT All Mahogany 1998 Larrivee D09 Brazilian “Flying Eagle” 1998 Larrivee D10 Brazilian "Flying Eagle" 1990 Goodall Rosewood Standard https://soundcloud.com/247hoopsfan |
#11
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I don't think either one is better. Richard Hoover and Chris Martin will give you a variety of reasons why a neck should be dove-tailed, and they have the amazing guitars to support their claims. Dana Bourgeois and Bob Taylor will give you excellent guitars with bolt-on necks. I would neither buy nor not buy a guitar because of the way the neck is attached.
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#12
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if the guitars or of middle to low quality then it really wont make a difference but when you get into the best of the best then i personally dovetail comes out on top for sound
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#13
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At this point the majority of Martins (in terms of pure number built) use a mortise and Tenon joint that is glued and bolted, not a dovetail. You have to get to the 18 series and higher to get a dovetail on a Martin these days.
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Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01 Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking Breedlove American Series C20/SR Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212 https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music |
#14
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I like to think of myself as somewhat of an expert on neck joints....in fact my reputation hinges on them...(pun intended)
In 1972 I started with dovetails and then moved to a doweled mortise and tenon in 1980, then to bolt-on. In my experience any one of them properly executed will allow for no tonal loss, which is really the issue right? I built my first bolt-on neck in 1988 and I have never looked back. The only difference I have ever seen from one to another is that the side benefits of the bolt-on far outweigh those of any of the others: ease of construction, ease of alteration and being able to finish necks and bodies separately. Then there's Voyage Air.... The joint on Voyage Air is essentially a bolt-on, the hinge really doesn't do anything once the neck is in the playing position, in fact string tension is necessary to fully mate the 2 halves of the fretboard. You would think that this would cause some loss of signal but if anything the Voyage Air neck seems to apply more energy to the top than my standard bolt-on guitars. I think it has something to do with the fact that, by design, the tension of the strings is directly applied to the fretboard and not spread out over the entire heel. Thom Bresh has his Voyage Air set up so that the bolt is about 2 turns loose for his preferred string height (a ridiculous .050 under the bass strings...) as he travels he can adjust the the string height if he's somewhere that the climate raises his action. Even with essentially no heel contact until the fretboard there is no loss. I'm not advocating one over the other though. Despite the benefits to the bolt-on there is something very cool about a well executed dovetail. Keeping a tie with the original craft of guitars is a worthy endeavor and let's face it, there are instruments made with dovetails that have been around a long time. Of course... a folding dovetail would not be a good thing.....
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Harvey Leach |
#15
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I have both.
I love both. A good guitar is a good guitar, regardless of the details. Harv speaks truth :-)
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-donh- *everything* is a tone control |