Under Saddle Pickup Removal

[abn556]

I learned from the recent experience of removing two under saddle pickups from a J-45 and a L-00 that the wire between the saddle and the bridge definitely affects the tone of the guitars. When I removed the pickup and wiring from my wife’s L-00, I had to leave the wire under the saddle for a while until a shim kit from Bob Colosi came in. As soon as I cut and fit the shim and super glued it to the bottom of the saddle and removed the wire, I noticed an immediate difference in the sound of the guitar. The guitar sounded muted before and sounded significantly better without the wire breaking the connection between the saddle and the bridge. You could just replace the saddle as well.

In the very isolated case of these two specific guitars, the under saddle wire most definitely was affecting the sound of the guitars.

[lowrider]

It's not an isolated case at all. Those soft braided UST's absolutely affect tone and not in a good way.

Best thing to do, if you're not installing another pickup is to just push the UST back down inside the guitar and tape it to the side incase you or a future owner wants to use it. Then add a shim or a new saddle.

The solid UST's in the better Fishman pickups don't seem to have the same negative effect.

[LawrenceMollard]

Yep. Any time I get a guitar with one of those in there first thing I do is rip it out. It makes more difference on some guitars than others. But I've never regretted it.

[Simonix]

I have to admit that it was one of the first things I tried with my j45.

I removed it, and got a new saddle.

But…..

On my particular guitar, it made no discernible difference. I was planning on fitting it with an alternative pickup system, but I ended up just refitting the Baggs in the end.

I think maybe i am lucky, as I have read many forum threads from other owners that had the opposite results.

[BoneDigger]

This is good information. I plan to take out the Sonitone in my Epiphone IBG Hummingbird. I may go have a professional do it for me.

[jricc]

I had a Sonitone in my Martin SC10e Sapele and I took that out. I replaced it with a Baggs Element (I like it, though I'm in the minority here), but what I noticed was the Sonitone is a thicker braid then the Element. I had to get a new saddle to use with the Element, the Sonitone was that much thicker.

[slimey]

J 45 with a Baggs element, not a pick up I'm very fond of.
Ripped it out , new bone saddle, a noticeable improvement in projection, volume and tone.
I for one would prefer it if manufacturers never put pick ups in instruments over a certain value, typically they're not a great pick up. I think people who play out and amplify a lot all have their favorite set up and odds are it's not what the manufacturer put in there to start with. It's a bit of a waste , maybe I'm too fussy?

[Dan Winheld]

Originally Posted by abn556

I learned from the recent experience of removing two under saddle pickups from a J-45 and a L-00 that the wire between the saddle and the bridge definitely affects the tone of the guitars. When I removed the pickup and wiring from my wife’s L-00, I had to leave the wire under the saddle for a while until a shim kit from Bob Colosi came in. As soon as I cut and fit the shim and super glued it to the bottom of the saddle and removed the wire, I noticed an immediate difference in the sound of the guitar. The guitar sounded muted before and sounded significantly better without the wire breaking the connection between the saddle and the bridge. You could just replace the saddle as well.

In the very isolated case of these two specific guitars, the under saddle wire most definitely was affecting the sound of the guitars.

Me too. One guitar had the squishy braided thing- Sonicore, I think? Made a difference, not a huge difference but definitely significant and well worth the fussy shimming job I had to do. The other guitar had the hard, squared up type, didn’t seem to make much difference but still glad I did it. Can’t even remember if I had to shim it up or not!

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by slimey

J 45 with a Baggs element, not a pick up I'm very fond of.
Ripped it out , new bone saddle, a noticeable improvement in projection, volume and tone.
I for one would prefer it if manufacturers never put pick ups in instruments over a certain value, typically they're not a great pick up. I think people who play out and amplify a lot all have their favorite set up and odds are it's not what the manufacturer put in there to start with. It's a bit of a waste , maybe I'm too fussy?

Slimey is correct. IMO. Most of us here have a fave pup.

But most players out there not so much or so often.

Cheers

Paul

[dilver]

Originally Posted by lowrider

It's not an isolated case at all. Those soft braided UST's absolutely affect tone and not in a good way.

Best thing to do, if you're not installing another pickup is to just push the UST back down inside the guitar and tape it to the side incase you or a future owner wants to use it. Then add a shim or a new saddle.

The solid UST's in the better Fishman pickups don't seem to have the same negative effect.

My findings as well. Also, the stock saddle tends to be a little loose in the slot. Replacing with a snug-fitting saddle really helps the saddle, bridge and top to vibrate as one.

[erhino41]

I've got a lowden I had an under saddle pickup removed and new saddles made. The pickup definitely hampered the sound. It didn't sound bad acoustically with the pickup and it sounded pretty good plugged in, for an undersaddle. The difference after was undeniable. Increased sustain, volume and quality of tone.

I've never played a ust that I liked. I can see the appeal of feedback resistance, but it's like playing a different instrument. Attack and decay are different and the way you play has to be alter to suit the dynamics of the pickup. This is true of all pickups, but imo, undersaddles even more so.

I won't even consider buying a guitar with an under saddle unless it's a unique opportunity, like this Lowden was.

[abn556]

What started this whole thing for me was I bought a Custom Shop J-45 with Koa back and sides. As soon as I got it home I tore out the pup and replaced the end pin with one of the gold end pin jack replacement sets that Larrivee sells. Worked perfectly. Once the saddle was shimmed, the guitar sounded way better. Why any builder would put these pups in a higher end guitar is beyond me. I would assume most people who buy a Custom Shop acoustic are doing so because of the acoustic tone. At least give the option for with or without electronics.

[CharlieBman]

Interesting feedback. I've been annoyed with the sound of my J-45 from the moment I played it. Not that it was terrible, but just sounded rather faded and non-descript. I've felt from the start that the squishy under saddle pickup wire HAD to be significantly responsible.

To try something new, last week I made a compensated bone saddle for the J-45. The stock saddle sat kind of loose, so I made sure the new saddle sit nice and snug. The difference in sound (not amplified) was immediately noticeable. It sounded clearer, punchier, with better sustain...and this was with the under saddle wire still in place.

I don't buy acoustic guitars for their pre-installed pickups, but sometimes, like with the J-45, it's hard to avoid. All should have a no pickup option. That LR Baggs is a nice sounding pickup and I've used it to record direct a few times with nice results. But most of what I play requires no pickup. After hearing what a simple change to a bone saddle did to the sound, and what I'm reading in this thread, I know what my next project is going to be.

[Glennwillow]

My experience in removing UST's from a bridge is similar to others here. Sometimes removing the device makes the guitar sound a little better, sometimes it doesn't. I do think the result depends on the type of UST.

- Glenn

[darylcrisp]

Same experience. Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes not. It’s one of the first things I try when someone brings a guitar and tells me it doesn’t sound so good.
I always cut a new bone saddle for a better fit on all Gibsons, sometimes that makes an additional difference.
I’ve been removing a lot of UST pickups lately and installing the LR Baggs HiFi system that does not have a UST. It sounds better.

They introduced an updated HiFi system at the NAMM show with a soundhole mic, these are even better but not available to the public yet-but soon.
Very reasonable cost as well.

d