Acoustic Duo, Filling This Space

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Looking at the photo of the room, I'd be leaning towards one of the line array systems. I've been using a Bose L1c for about 8 years, and it would very comfortably handle that room. No messing with monitors. No blowing away the people sitting up front.

Good luck with the decisions.

Yeah, I think I can demo an L1 compact and the like somewhere near me, I'd really like to experience not needing a monitor, not that say a Guitar Center would be the most realistic test. But man that would be great.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

So no feedback? I mean I've seen photos and videos of that type of setup, so that code has been cracked, but in my inexperience I briefly blew the lid off that place when I got a mic in front of our Eon 15 G2 (think I have that right) so that is non-good.

Anyway, I know that's a separate discussion, and I've read a lot about that here, will study some more.

The trick is as you need to get louder put the speaker up higher. It misses the mics, obviously does not interact with the guitars, and you can consider it your monitor volume control (you turn down the monitor volume by moving it higher).

[Kalani]

I think a 15" speaker would be overkill for a room that size. 10" as others have said would be much better. It would also be much more difficult to control feedback in that tight space using a larger speaker set high and behind. A 15" will have a lot of low end floating around your guitars and mics, producing low-end feedback.

[Chriscom]

Thanks much, the additional comments are very helpful, even pointing in different directions. Some of this really is art.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

Yeah, I think I can demo an L1 compact and the like somewhere near me, I'd really like to experience not needing a monitor, not that say a Guitar Center would be the most realistic test. But man that would be great.

If you're considering the L1 Compact, as I was a few weeks ago, go online and see what others are saying about it in comparison with the Eon One, which I ended up buying. I've still got one of my L1 Model II left and was strongly headed in the Bose direction again, but am pretty happy with having gone back to JBL, despite thinking that I never would again.

The satellite and two extension pieces fit inside the back of the cabinet for an easy single trip carry and you can use one, both or neither of the extensions depending on the room you're in.

[Chriscom]

Nama Ensou, thanks for that post.

I've spent hours poring over product information and forums discussing the L1s and JBL Eon One and Eon One Pro, and it's great to hear from somebody who went down a similar path (with far more experience!) and ended up with the Eon One. I understand the Eon One levels into the combo jacks are are bit low, but that's not a deal killer since in my duo work I'd be using a mixer anyway (though the Pro is attractive partly because of the upgraded mixing station). Separately, I've heard more glowing descriptions of being able to perform without monitors using the L1, but that may just be the luck of the draw on where I ended up reading comments about them.

I did read one thread where someone who had done a detailed comparison between those two and a third, and he thought the Eon One had a smoother transition through the mids. But that can be so subjective.

I love how the Eon One packs up into one convenient unit. I assume you also found you preferred how it sounded?

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

...I've heard more glowing descriptions of being able to perform without monitors using the L1, but that may just be the luck of the draw on where I ended up reading comments about them.

I did read one thread where someone who had done a detailed comparison between those two and a third, and he thought the Eon One had a smoother transition through the mids. But that can be so subjective.

I love how the Eon One packs up into one convenient unit. I assume you also found you preferred how it sounded?

Getting rid of all the multiple trips in and out to bring everything in was definitely one of the reasons I got interested in the line arrays, in addition to all too often walking out front and realizing that the great sound on stage differed greatly out in the room where the customers were.

Another thing I really like is the lack of need for speaker stands for getting the sound up over peoples heads. Had a few good lessons learned in the past from having a totally packed room but people in the back saying bass and drums was all they could hear; no guitar solos and almost no vocals.

The smoother, more musically addressed mids with the Eon One is real, and I even like them moreso than with my QSC K12 which I've just recently sold.

A few proper tweaks to the preamp section on these, add two more channels with the advent of the Pro, and they're at least looking in the right direction. While they're at it, I'll take a small patch bay too, at least one that allows an external mixer to be inserted, leaving the internal channels still available.

At present the unit is working well for me but if I can in the near future, I'll compare it with another unit, at which point I'll try to get it repaired if it indeed does have a problem, outside of poor design decisions at the gain stage. Bottom line is that I'm happy with my purchase and looking forward to having a mixer sometime soon, which will allow me higher gain levels and eight channels instead of two. Actually nine, since I'll be running the mixer into one channel, leaving the other still available.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Nama Ensou

Getting rid of all the multiple trips in and out to bring everything in was definitely one of the reasons I got interested in the line arrays, in addition to all too often walking out front and realizing that the great sound on stage differed greatly out in the room where the customers were.

Another thing I really like is the lack of need for speaker stands for getting the sound up over peoples heads. Had a few good lessons learned in the past from having a totally packed room but people in the back saying bass and drums was all they could hear; no guitar solos and almost no vocals.

The smoother, more musically addressed mids with the Eon One is real, and I even like them moreso than with my QSC K12 which I've just recently sold.

A few proper tweaks to the preamp section on these, add two more channels with the advent of the Pro, and they're at least looking in the right direction. While they're at it, I'll take a small patch bay too, at least one that allows an external mixer to be inserted, leaving the internal channels still available.

At present the unit is working well for me but if I can in the near future, I'll compare it with another unit, at which point I'll try to get it repaired if it indeed does have a problem, outside of poor design decisions at the gain stage. Bottom line is that I'm happy with my purchase and looking forward to having a mixer sometime soon, which will allow me higher gain levels and eight channels instead of two. Actually nine, since I'll be running the mixer into one channel, leaving the other still available.

Nama,

Don't forget that many of use use channels 3/4 on the Eon with XLR-TRS cables to connect our mixers. You peg the vol on the 3/4 channel and use the mixer to set levels. It leaves the to combi jacks available.

Cheers

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by Kalani

I think a 15" speaker would be overkill for a room that size. 10" as others have said would be much better. It would also be much more difficult to control feedback in that tight space using a larger speaker set high and behind. A 15" will have a lot of low end floating around your guitars and mics, producing low-end feedback.

I play in a guitar/banjo/mando/keyboard duo. We use K8s and a sub when we need bass.

[MikeBmusic]

In the room the OP showed, I would not consider a line array system - no space for it to be placed optimally (which is behind and to the side). Having played at a place with similar set up and a Bose L1, the only thing that worked was a separate monitor in front of the players - and the 'stick' was about 8 feet away to the side and slightly in front of the players, and what resulted was an 'echo' from it's sound bouncing back. The delay was minor, but noticeable.

[Chriscom]

Much thanks to all. Yeah it was a tight fit back there. Very interesting to hear about the ideal positioning of a line array and all that, and the Eon One user's experience.

My main concern with the bass is having something that'll do the keyboard justice. Seems like life sure would be simpler if it was just two dudes with guitars, but my partner and I have a good sound together. I will probably do everything I can to avoid adding a sub, though it's interesting to see midwinter have it in reserve.

I watched an EON One Pro video last night where the rep said it had just as solid a bass as the plain ole' Eon One, even though we're talking about an 8" cone v. a 10". When the interviewer asked how that was possible, the guy said "better components." Reminded me of the old gag where a salesman is selling every single item at a loss, and when asked how they can stay in business, he says: "Volume!"

Anyway every comment has been helpful. When I pick up a system, whatever it is, I'll report back.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

My main concern with the bass is having something that'll do the keyboard justice. Seems like life sure would be simpler if it was just two dudes with guitars, but my partner and I have a good sound together. I will probably do everything I can to avoid adding a sub, though it's interesting to see midwinter have it in reserve.

I think the bottom end is one of the most pleasant things about live music, even for just an acoustic only player and if you get any modern type of line array system, you'll be getting a sub at the bottom of the unit.

I watched an EON One Pro video last night where the rep said it had just as solid a bass as the plain ole' Eon One, even though we're talking about an 8" cone v. a 10". When the interviewer asked how that was possible, the guy said "better components."

Yeah, I don't think so. There are better components and advances in cabinet geometry and such, but going with a smaller driver, smaller cabinet and less power does not add up to equal bottom end.

[lschwart]

I agree with those that suggest there might be some problems with one of those tower units in a tight space like this.

And if you're concerned about there not being enough bottom in a 10" or 12" conventional PA speaker for keyboard, simply have your friend audition a few at a local store with his keyboard or a similar one in stock at the store. At small acoustic gig volume levels, I think you'll be surprised at how well a powered PA speaker can work for keyboard.

Louis

[kramster]

Center Point Space Station v3... just sayin'

[Chriscom]

There are better components and advances in cabinet geometry and such, but going with a smaller driver, smaller cabinet and less power does not add up to equal bottom end.

Yeah I don't buy that either. There are some things you can only learn from listening, but even so, the couple of places I most recently checked for full specs still aren't showing e.g. SPL for the Pro.

Definitely some equipment auditions in my future.