Dazzo with a Barbera pickup?

[Lucky Ambrose]

I am having Teddy install a Dazzo in my small body guitar.
I am wondering if I should also get one installed in my Yamamoto that currently uses a Barbera pickup.
The Barbera Solo sounds great, no complaints on the tone, however in that last couple of years I have to send the Barbera back for repair a few times.
I recently bought a new Barbera Solo for my small body guitar and within a few weeks one on the transducers failed and needs to be sent back for repair.
So I’m getting a Dazzo in that guitar.
My question: Has anyone used both the Dazzo and the Barbera Solo at the same time as a dual pickups system?
Since my Yamamoto sounds great with the Barbera… would adding a Dazzo be of any benefit outside of its reliability?

[Doug Young]

It's certainly worth a try. I have only paired my Barbera's with an internal mic.

2 considerations, tho. I usually have found that dual source systems with a UST and SBT aren't my favorites. Even tho the Dazzo sounds quite a bit different from the Barbera, both are basically picking up the same spot on the guitar, and in that sense they aren't *that* different. I usually prefer combining sources that are different enough that they add complexity to the sound. An internal mic is always useful, and a mag is different enough to be useful with an SBT or UST. That said, there have been systems that sounded good with a UST/SBT combination, like Bagg's iMix.

The other issue, somewhat related, is the Barbara's every-other-transducer out of phase design. Since the Dazzo will be picking up the sound pretty much in sync with the Barbera, that may create some weird cancellation on the out of phase strings. Hard to know if that will sound good or bad without trying it. I don't notice any issue with an internal mic+Barbera, but the mic is not even close to being correlated with any of the pickup elements.

[Lucky Ambrose]

Thank you Doug. That is great info. I’ll be sticking with the Barbara for now. You saved me a few bucks for sure. ��❤️��

[Doug Young]

Just to be clear, I'm not recommending against Dazzo in general, it's a great pickup. Probably the best sounding setup I have is a Dazzo. And some may read my post and say "a Dazzo sounds nothing like a UST", which is also true. When I say they're not going to be all that different, I mean they are picking up essentially the same spot on the guitar, the saddle line, albeit in a different way, so the signals will be very correlated. So they don't, to me, add something dramatically new to each other in a dual source setup.

There could be reasons to want both, tho. The Dazzo, when matched well to your guitar, will probably sound more natural than the Barbera. The Barbera will be a bit more direct, punchier, and also more feedback resistant. So you might use the Dazzo for quiet listening gigs where you want as natural a sound as possible, and the Barbera when you need to play louder, and of course can blend anywhere in between depending on the situation.

[conecaster]

<<both are basically picking up the same spot on the guitar, and in that sense they aren't *that* different.>>

This is not accurate.

Amplifying strings in close proximity to the elements is a very different result than passive top mounted transmission.

The Barbers pickup uses Bi-morph elements that double voltage. The Barbera signal is far louder than the top mounted transducers.

[conecaster]

<<The other issue, somewhat related, is the Barbara's every-other-transducer out of phase design. Since the Dazzo will be picking up the sound pretty much in sync with the Barbera, that may create some weird cancellation on the out of phase strings. Hard to know if that will sound good or bad without trying it. I don't notice any issue with an internal mic+Barbera, but the mic is not even close to being correlated with any of the pickup elements.>>

The effect of phasing would be minimal. The cross over cancellation the Barbera design offers is minimal. There is not enough string isolation. The fulcrums between strings on the Barbera string rest create opposite motions vertically, one strings downward energy is countered by the see sawing effect driving neighboring strings upward.

The combination of the 2 competing signals would be very unequal and the top mounted transducers not very audible in comparison to the bi- morph output of the signal the Barbera produces.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by conecaster

<<both are basically picking up the same spot on the guitar, and in that sense they aren't *that* different.>>

This is not accurate.

Amplifying strings in close proximity to the elements is a very different result than passive top mounted transmission.

Yes, of course. Two objects can't occupy the same physical space :-) And in this case, one is sensing vibration of the top under the saddle line, the other is more about string vibration. And even further, different USTs and different SBTs are, well "different", so the devil's in the detail.

I obviously didn't state my impression clearly. To me, and this is strictly my limited experience, your mileage may vary, etc, the SBT/UST combinations I have tried were not complementary enough for my taste. When I combine pickups, I've had the best luck with sources that bring something quite different to the table, more different than a UST and SBT both mounted at the saddle area. But someone else might easily disagree and find that combination is exactly what they're looking for.

So I take it you are recommending the Dazzo+Barbera combination? As I stated upfront, it's worth a try. Do you offer an SBT/UST combo with your system?

Suggestion to the OP: If you do decide you want to try this, you might ask Rich Barbera for his opinion on how it might work, since he knows his pickup best.