Pickup System for new Furch

[Dolphran]

My search for the best electronics for my new Furch guitar (Yellow Deluxe Gc SR) continues. I think it will help my decision process if I write out my thoughts on this. This post may be TL;DR.

I don’t necessarily need an easy turnkey system, so that expands my options somewhat. I am willing to mix and match components if necessary to get what I want even given the added expense of doing so. But at this point it seems I am driven mostly by what I DON’T want. Specifically:

1) Not Quacky
2) Not Thin
3) Not Boomy/Bassy/Muddy
4) Not Boxy
5) Not Electric sounding
6) Not ugly
7) Not highly prone to feedback
8) Not a highly invasive install
9) Not detrimental to the unamplified sound of the guitar
10) Not requiring an external preamp and/or IR for great sound.

There are some things I DO want as well:

A) Endpin Jack that can by modified/replaced to bring 9V power in on TRS Ring.
I’ve been doing this with my previous guitar. My floorboard provides power to the guitar 99% of the time with a TRS cable, and I never have to worry about unplugging the guitar. When I only have the guitar with me and want to use a standard guitar cable, I carry a small adapter in my guitar case that splits the TRS in the guitar into an external battery and a standard TS guitar jack.

B) I’d like access to volume and EQ on the guitar. The EQ may be achievable via a volume blend of multi-sourced systems.

C) I’d like a system that sounds great recorded going directly to a DAW interface. At least good enough that with the help of the myriad DAW plugins at my disposal I can be happy with the results. Recording guitar with a mic is, for various reasons, just not practical for me much of the time.

So, what I’ve been trying to do is eliminate things that won’t work and find what’s left.

Regarding #10 above, I need to be able to just grab my guitar case and nothing else and plug into a PA somewhere and be happy with the sound. If I need to bring any additional electronics in that kind of situation it won’t work for me. For formal gigs, I use a TC-Helicon Voice Live 3 Extreme with some additional footswitches and a pedal. That gives me all the tone-shaping and effects I could want, minus IR capability. But I don’t have room to add something like a ToneDexter to my setup.

I’ve been thinking that all USTs are eliminated because of #1, #8, and #10. And perhaps #9 as well (but that seems controversial). That leaves SBTs, Mags, Mics, and combinations thereof.

#4 may be more an issue of the guitar than the pickup system. I think of boxiness as being a slight banjo-like quality. I don’t know if that’s what other people mean by the term. It may be a UST thing. The SBTs, Mags, and Mics I’ve been listening to don’t seem to suffer from it.

#5 and #6 are clearly pointed at sound-hole Mag pickups. But perhaps there are options there I don’t know about. An Ibanez guitar I almost purchased had a very discreet mag at the top of the sound hole butted up against the fretboard. I wish this were included in mag comparison tests I’ve listened to. I liked the look so much it could be worth it to try to get it as an Ibanez replacement part. The LRBaggs offerings have that horrible cream color. Black, Please, LRB! In any case I don’t think I would use a Mag as the only source. I would want to mix it with an SBT and/or a Mic.

#3 eliminates the K&K in my opinion based on what I’ve heard. Frankly, I’m perplexed when video comparisons I’ve listened to with high quality headphones have comments praising the K&K when I heard them as overwhelmingly Boomy/Bassy/Muddy.

For SBT’s we’re down to LRBaggs HiFi, Trance Amulet, Dazzo, Schatten, and perhaps Fishman’s TAP. From listening to video comparisons, I think I like Schatten the best, but a number of folks seem to complain that it lacks bass (#2). However onboard EQ and or combining with another source could perhaps address this. Which brings me to Preamps and multi-source configurations.

I've actually pre-ordered a Hi-Fi Duet system. But it may not ship until summer, and I don’t know if I can wait that long. I started out this journey thinking I wanted an internal mic blend, and I should wait for the latest and greatest since it’s just around the corner. But now I’m not as certain. My biggest fear with SBT + Mic is feedback (#7), since both sources can have feedback problems. If I can get a natural “airy” sound without a mic, then it may be much more feedback immune. I do think that some multi-source blend is likely to be best sounding, but I’d like one of the sources to be pretty feedback proof. Could be Mag/Mic, or SBT/Mag, or even SBT/Mag/Mic. I could even reconsider a UST if blending hides the quack, but there would still be concerns around #8 and #9.

For a preamp, I had been looking at the Schatten Artist II Plus 2. It’s two channels with independent volume, although it lacks tone control. It’s attractive price-wise as a bundle with the Schatten HFN SBT, while still having an unused input for something else. However, I’m starting to lean towards Fishman Matrix infinity preamps (even if not used with Fishman sources) because of their mid-cut tone control and bass boost switch.

The bass boost switch on the Fishman could go well with the Schatten HFN, because the HFN seems great except for a reported lack of bass. An interesting combo would be the Schatten HFN passive together with the Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend (just for the preamp), plus a Mag (MojoTone?). I could wire the HFN into the Fishman where the UST usually goes, and the mag into the fishman where the mic usually goes. That could be a very interesting SBT + Mag setup with Tone and blend.

For full on crazy, add the Artist II Plus 2, and keep the Fishman mic. Run the fishman (with HFN and Mic) into one channel of the Artist II, and the Mag into the other channel. Three-way system!

Hats off if you’ve read this far. Any and all feedback welcome!

[martingitdave]

Well.. that was a lot to digest. I don't think what you want exists. I will offer this, having played all of those various pickups. Often the results are not what you expect. Besides the different audible results, which can vary wildly, there's also feel. Over the years I've tried to simplify as much as possible.

I think other players like me have too. Pick something and stick with it. Some will go with USTs like the Matrix. Some will go with dual systems like the Anthem. Some, like me, need simplicity and use K&K. The outboard gear you use can clean up just about everything. I am using a LR Baggs VPDI (ToneDexter is a better but more expensive product) with passive K&Ks. It gives me the flexibility to plug straight into the mixing desk on systems with high impedance, I can use the aforementioned VPDI for a near perfect representation, or I can use any one of the analog preamps like SunnAudio DI2.

Lastly, I have owned one Furch and played many of them. Nice guitars. They have low end and a lot of highs. So, be careful with bright pickups. It might be more than you want to listen to. You might find a "dull" sounding pickup compensates well.

[Mbroady]

Big list and some of your non-Starters rule many choices out…maybe

First, is this for solo gigs or a full ensemble?

I have a Schatten HFN combined with a K&K bullet mic combo running through an onboard K&K dual source pre in a Stonebridge/Furch D32LR. It’s a good system for low volume gigs.

All my other guitars including other Furch guitars have the Baggs Anthem SL. It sounds amazing through every PA I plug into. And being able to adjust the blend allows you to optimize the pick up for individual guitars. Yes, you do have to drill into the bridge….#8 but I don’t find that highly invasive.

Here’s the kicker. The reason it’s not in the D32LR is #9. That is not the case on the others, just that one. I hear absolutely no sound degradation in all the other guitars. I will try the Anthem Again in the D32 with a different saddle….you never know. And I will always try the Anthem before anything else. it’s the best sounding system to my ears. It’s also why Furch Opted to include the LR Baggs Anthem as part of the line up.

Good luck on your search

[HogsNRoses]

Before getting an SBT, you might want to check the bridge plate. My Furch has an insert, and there is a seam and a little difference in height where an SBT should be mounted. Because of the seam, my Furch can barely accommodate a K&K with its small discs, and the placement is not ideal. Sounds OK, though.

[HogsNRoses]

Originally Posted by HogsNRoses

Before getting an SBT, you might want to check the bridge plate. My Furch has an insert, and there is a seam and a little difference in height where an SBT should be mounted. Because of the seam, my Furch can barely accommodate a K&K with its small discs, and the placement is not ideal. Sounds OK, though.

Here’s a picture of my Furch’s bridge plate. The glue is from a K&K installation; we can assume it was pristine when it left the factory [emoji3]

[Dolphran]

Originally Posted by HogsNRoses

Here’s a picture of my Furch’s bridge plate. The glue is from a K&K installation; we can assume it was pristine when it left the factory [emoji3]

I was aware that Furch uses some walnut there in their builds, but I didn't know it left a lip at the seam. I don't think the seam itself would be an issue, but if there is a lip it would need to be sanded smooth.

[Dolphran]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

First, is this for solo gigs or a full ensemble?

The vast majority of its use will be solo gigs. Tone that is tailored to cut through a live band mix is not a priority. But feedback immunity is still important.

[Dolphran]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Lastly, I have owned one Furch and played many of them. Nice guitars. They have low end and a lot of highs. So, be careful with bright pickups. It might be more than you want to listen to. You might find a "dull" sounding pickup compensates well.

That's a good point. The Birch/Rosewood Furch is a bright guitar (not in a bad way acoustically). Chords ring forever and string separation is great. But if the brightness were to be exaggerated by a pickup, that could turn to shrill or piercing (Those characteristics are definitely on the NOT list). I was told that rigid USTs can suffer from this. What pickups would you avoid because of this?

[Petty1818]

Your list of wants is quite large. I am not sure you will be able to get all of that! However, I will add that my buddy just got a Furch, which came with a K&K style pickup installed. Furch guitars can sound bright but this combination sounds very nice.

[Warped]

That's a lot of requirements If you want something that sounds really good DI on its own, I'd say you need at least a mic + something else.

By chance, I also have a Gc-SR and just ordered a K&K Pure Mini for it, which I have in another guitar. Bases on how it sounds in the other guitar, I suspect it would be a good match for the Furch's strong lows and highs. Not sure of your deadline, but when it arrives sometime next week I'll do a temporary install and can probably make a comparison for you I also have a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (mag+mic) I can put in.

[Dolphran]

Originally Posted by Warped

By chance, I also have a Gc-SR and just ordered a K&K Pure Mini for it, which I have in another guitar. Bases on how it sounds in the other guitar, I suspect it would be a good match for the Furch's strong lows and highs. Not sure of your deadline, but when it arrives sometime next week I'll do a temporary install and can probably make a comparison for you I also have a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (mag+mic) I can put in.

That would be great. Thank you!

[AeroUSA]

I would install the Anthem SL.

[Warped]

Originally Posted by Warped

By chance, I also have a Gc-SR and just ordered a K&K Pure Mini for it, which I have in another guitar. Bases on how it sounds in the other guitar, I suspect it would be a good match for the Furch's strong lows and highs. Not sure of your deadline, but when it arrives sometime next week I'll do a temporary install and can probably make a comparison for you I also have a Fishman Rare Earth Blend (mag+mic) I can put in.

So I installed the K&K yesterday with the included double-sided tape and just made a very quick recording. Same takes, alternating between mic and SBT.
Røde NT1A > ~30cm away, pointed at 12-14th fret.
K&K > Headway EDM-1 preamp on Hi/5MOhm input. No EQ, but slightest bit of reverb in post.
https://on.soundcloud.com/72GqMGc9nL5ouAVP8

[Rob Youl]

"So I installed the K&K yesterday with the included double-sided tape and just made a very quick recording. Same takes, alternating between mic and SBT.
Røde NT1A > ~30cm away, pointed at 12-14th fret.
K&K > Headway EDM-1 preamp on Hi/5MOhm input. No EQ, but slightest bit of reverb in post.
https://on.soundcloud.com/72GqMGc9nL5ouAVP8"


Beautiful sound. Very bright.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Rob Youl

"So I installed the K&K yesterday with the included double-sided tape and just made a very quick recording. Same takes, alternating between mic and SBT.
Røde NT1A > ~30cm away, pointed at 12-14th fret.
K&K > Headway EDM-1 preamp on Hi/5MOhm input. No EQ, but slightest bit of reverb in post.
https://on.soundcloud.com/72GqMGc9nL5ouAVP8"


Beautiful sound. Very bright.

The tape isn't meant for a permanent install. It's why you are getting a bright tone. You really need to use the glue for the K&K to sound right.