Brazilian rosewood in the u.s. To become illegal

[JohnW63]

What is an example of NON commercial use ? If I build myself a desk and put Brazilian Rosewood on it, I've had in the attic for 20 years ?

But, if I get tired of it some day and try to sell it on eBay, I'm in trouble with the Feds ?

What about old guitars in Music store inventory ? Unless they can document the serial number being from a given year, the instrument is not sellable ?

[kydave]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

What is an example of NON commercial use ?
1. If I build myself a desk and put Brazilian Rosewood on it, I've had in the attic for 20 years ?

2. But, if I get tired of it some day and try to sell it on eBay, I'm in trouble with the Feds ?

3. What about old guitars in Music store inventory ? Unless they can document the serial number being from a given year, the instrument is not sellable ?

1. No problem
2. If you're selling it over state lines, and the interpretation of Brazilian goes the way of ivory, you're toast.
3. Lots of old parlor guitars are going to be un-sellable. Name brands with tracking records via serial number, not so much - yet.

[mercy]

I have a tortoise shell pick that I will continue to use and enjoy. There is no substitute in playability or sound. Likewise there is no substitute for Braz. I wish I had money to buy one now.

[aknow]

Originally Posted by random works

What happens to BRW guitars once confiscated? Are they released back to their owners after paying a fine?

The agents sit on the banks of the Mississippi, playing bluegrass and drinking whiskey.

[mjz]

Originally Posted by devellis

I can't help but think that this won't have much impact on guitar players unless they're dealers. I can't see that any governmental agency has any interest in prohibiting people who own guitars sporting Brazilian rosewood from enjoying them. Likewise, sales that clearly involve instruments that predate the laws or that are from sources known to have complied with the laws seem unlikely to draw the attention of enforcement agencies. On the other hand, new instruments sold publicly that have Brazilian components of recent origin without documentation, or people dealing with substantial quantities of raw wood may well receive such scrutiny.

Obviously, none of us know exactly what will happen but I would be surprised if individuals who aren't contributing in any way to the illegal trafficking of banned goods will be targeted by law enforcement. Thus far, as I understand it, border agents haven't been unreasonable (there may be individual exceptions) about confiscations, even when they technically could have done so under the law. It's scary, to be sure, when a law permits what we would all agree are unwarranted confiscations, even if the actual confiscations don't occur.

Buying Brazilian Rosewood, without the supporting paperwork, is essentially pretending it wasn't poached in violation of the law. Sorry, but buying Brazilian and not also getting the CITES import documentation is the same as buying Brazilian that was poached. The mere fact we didn't put guts behind the ban with this type of enforcement from the beginning essentially made CITES nothing more than a nice gesture. And with that cover -- people exploited the mystique of banned and exotic for healthy profits and drove even more illegal poaching.

Now, it's for real. And the market is about to find out whose stashes were obtained pre ban, and whose were not. Any guesses?

Brazilian with import documentation or in a guitar produced by a company that can document the supply chain because they have done it right for years ------ just got a whole lot more valuable. The stuff that was obtained on the grey market - you know, the stuff we all like to pretend didn't violate the treaty---
Worthless. And it's about time.

max

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by mjz

Buying Brazilian Rosewood, without the supporting paperwork, is essentially pretending it wasn't poached in violation of the law. Sorry, but buying Brazilian and not also getting the CITES import documentation is the same as buying Brazilian that was poached. The mere fact we didn't put guts behind the ban with this type of enforcement from the beginning essentially made CITES nothing more than a nice gesture. And with that cover -- people exploited the mystique of banned and exotic for healthy profits and drove even more illegal poaching.

Now, it's for real. And the market is about to find out whose stashes were obtained pre ban, and whose were not. Any guesses?

Brazilian with import documentation or in a guitar produced by a company that can document the supply chain because they have done it right for years ------ just got a whole lot more valuable. The stuff that was obtained on the grey market - you know, the stuff we all like to pretend didn't violate the treaty---
Worthless. And it's about time.

max

I don't think you understand that the woods that most small builders have stockpiled (small caches, mostly) are materials that have been in the U.S. for decades...prior to *any* of this legislation.

Your opinion here is based on a number of incorrect assumptions, unfortunately.

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by mercy

I have a tortoise shell pick that I will continue to use and enjoy. There is no substitute in playability or sound. Likewise there is no substitute for Braz. I wish I had money to buy one now.

-1

There are superior substitutes. And you almost certainly do not have a real tortoise shell pick, although it is a remote possibility. See http://www.fender.com/news/all-about-tortoiseshell/

[kydave]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

-1

There are superior substitutes. And you almost certainly do not have a real tortoise shell pick, although it is a remote possibility. See http://www.fender.com/news/all-about-tortoiseshell/

Why on earth would you make that remark? There are many of us who have been playing a long time and have real tortoise shell picks. I'm not quite sure why you would immediately assume otherwise.

[JohnW63]

2. If you're selling it over state lines, and the interpretation of Brazilian goes the way of ivory, you're toast.

So I can sell it within my state all I want ? I figured that selling is selling. If that was not the case, then guitar stores can sell all they want, in person and just get the walk in customer to show they live in the same state. You could ebay all you want but say <insert state> residents only bid.

[ecguitar44]

Originally Posted by kydave

Why on earth would you make that remark? There are many of us who have been playing a long time and have real tortoise shell picks. I'm not quite sure why you would immediately assume otherwise.

I know why...

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by kydave

Why on earth would you make that remark? There are many of us who have been playing a long time and have real tortoise shell picks. I'm not quite sure why you would immediately assume otherwise.

I'm guessing you really believe there are a lot of tortoise shell picks around and that you have one or several, and that you believe they are somehow superior. In fact, there are very few picks made out of "tortoise shell" (actually, severely endangered sea turtles) compared to the number of picks that were sold as such but that were made of other materials, usually synthetic but sometimes from other animal sources.

It's very unlikely you have one let alone several, and they are not easily replaceable. See the Fender article. Most people who think they have genuine tortoise shell picks actually do not.

In any case, sea turtles, from which tortoise shell picks are made, are extremely endangered. If you really are trying to find endangered sea turtle guitar picks of recent manufacture, find a substitute.

In fact, you've probably already found one because what you have is very unlikely to be genuine sea turtle "tortoise shell." But if you do, it's time to trade them in for something else. Sea turtles are best utilized when swimming live in the sea. You don't need them for guitar picks.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

I'm guessing you really believe there are a lot of tortoise shell picks around and that you have one or several, and that you believe they are somehow superior. In fact, there are very few picks made out of "tortoise shell" (actually, severely endangered sea turtles) compared to the number of picks that were sold as such but that were made of other materials, usually synthetic but sometimes from other animal sources.

It's very unlikely you have one let alone several, and they are not easily replaceable. See the Fender article. Most people who think they have genuine tortoise shell picks actually do not.

In any case, sea turtles, from which tortoise shell picks are made, are extremely endangered. If you really are trying to find endangered sea turtle guitar picks of recent manufacture, find a substitute.

In fact, you've probably already found one because what you have is very unlikely to be genuine sea turtle "tortoise shell." But if you do, it's time to trade them in for something else. Sea turtles are best utilized when swimming live in the sea. You don't need them for guitar picks.

It's simple enough to test and most who seek them out to buy know how to test them.

[Cone Head]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

I'm guessing you really believe there are a lot of tortoise shell picks around and that you have one or several, and that you believe they are somehow superior. In fact, there are very few picks made out of "tortoise shell" (actually, severely endangered sea turtles) compared to the number of picks that were sold as such but that were made of other materials, usually synthetic but sometimes from other animal sources.

It's very unlikely you have one let alone several, and they are not easily replaceable. See the Fender article. Most people who think they have genuine tortoise shell picks actually do not.

In any case, sea turtles, from which tortoise shell picks are made, are extremely endangered. If you really are trying to find endangered sea turtle guitar picks of recent manufacture, find a substitute.

In fact, you've probably already found one because what you have is very unlikely to be genuine sea turtle "tortoise shell." But if you do, it's time to trade them in for something else. Sea turtles are best utilized when swimming live in the sea. You don't need them for guitar picks.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by brucefulton

Sea turtles are best utilized when swimming live in the sea.

How are they being utilized in that situation?

[jperryrocks]

This is all very confusing to buyers and sellers alike.

There so many guitars out there in the U.S. with Brazilian headstocks, bridges and fingerboards....let alone the back and sides.