visualizing mode patterns

[3rd_harmonic]

what is the ultimate stage of fretboard intimacy for scale (mode) patterns? .....pentatonic, mixolydian, Dorian, etc

Do you visualize it in your head as a horizontal pattern ? Vertical pattern? At any given moment, do you know what fret you are on or do you only know your position relative to the scale and "box" you are playing?

or is such visualization more of a handicap in becoming adept at playing modes?

[drtedtan]

The ultimate stage of familiarity with scales, modes and arpeggios is not to visualize them as patterns, I'd say, but rather to be able to construct them from any point within the scale based on the characteristic intervals of that scale, mode or arpeggio. That's a more practically useful method, especially when improvising/jamming/noodling/etc.

[rick-slo]

I go mostly by ear. Getting around the one fourth interval (G to B string) is something to be aware of. If I think patterns it is mostly horizontal across the strings.

[GHS]

I think the biggest obstacle is learning the fret board. I mean really knowing what note you are on anywhere. I'll let you know when I have that down.

[3rd_harmonic]

What I've been doing hasn't worked. I keep the pentatonic mode in mind and try to keep track of where the minor third intervals are....as the heart of the pattern. Then if I want mixolydian, I will add the 4th and 7th.

but maybe I just need more practice.

thanks for responses.

[SongwriterFan]

I translate to piano keyboard and back.

Not highly recommended.

[jpd]

Originally Posted by 3rd_harmonic

What I've been doing hasn't worked. I keep the pentatonic mode in mind and try to keep track of where the minor third intervals are....as the heart of the pattern. Then if I want mixolydian, I will add the 4th and 7th.

but maybe I just need more practice.

thanks for responses.

I simply think of the new scale notes for each mode as I go along.....not the 3rds, 5ths, 6ths......the full scale for each mode I pick on. Now the hard part is like GHS said....remembering on the fret board where each mode starts and runs.......but the fun is in the learning and creating
And as Songwriter does....the piano can give you a linear visualization...if you play keyboards!

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by drtedtan

The ultimate stage of familiarity with scales, modes and arpeggios is not to visualize them as patterns, I'd say, but rather to be able to construct them from any point within the scale based on the characteristic intervals of that scale, mode or arpeggio. That's a more practically useful method, especially when improvising/jamming/noodling/etc.

This........

[existence]

What's helped me vis a vis modes was realizing that I didn't need to learn new scale patterns, but only learn how to move the patterns I already knew to a different spot on the fretboard. For example, the scale pattern for A aeolian is the same pattern as D Dorian - you just have to orient your phrases around a different tonic note (in this case, D instead of A).

This I learned from the Bill Edwards book Fretboard Logic, which is the best book I've found for a player who already knows the basics and wants to expand into more advanced/intermediate stuff.

[Steel and wood]

Patterns mostly.

Figuring out quickly by ear what key a particular song/piece of music is in and then knowing what scales (pre learnt moveable patterns and notes up and down the fret board) I can choose to play. (Mostly Pentatonic with some Blues thrown in).

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by Steel and wood

Patterns mostly.

Figuring out quickly by ear what key a particular song/piece of music is in and then knowing what scales (pre learnt moveable patterns and notes up and down the fret board) I can choose to play. (Mostly Pentatonic with some Blues thrown in).

You must run into quite a few tunes where this doesn't work very well? That's where Modes come in.

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by drtedtan

The ultimate stage of familiarity with scales, modes and arpeggios is not to visualize them as patterns, I'd say, but rather to be able to construct them from any point within the scale based on the characteristic intervals of that scale, mode or arpeggio. That's a more practically useful method, especially when improvising/jamming/noodling/etc.

This.

Memorizing scale shapes is not useful. It's like learning complete sentences in a foreign language phonetically. It might get you to a bathroom in a pinch, but that's about it.

Memorizing interval shapes (pairs of notes) and what the interval sounds like is useful because that lets you build any chord or scale. Then, memorize the sequence of intervals in a scale or mode. And voila.

[jetcode]

A great question. First we have the issue of harmonic content. Then we have the issue of fingering and understanding the layout of the neck in standard tuning (for starters). I did this work back in late 70's. What came out of it is the ability to hear harmonic color and the fingering to support that color. I rarely use full scales or chords as much as I use arpeggios and melodic fragments in one or more voices.

Personally I feel it is more important to hear the sound and know how to make it than memorize fingerings. If you keep it simple and work with small melodic fragments you can explore the fretboard and harmonic modulation (changing keys) while expanding your ear.

And for fun here's a great book for blowing your game out of the water.

http://www.amazon.com/Thesaurus-Scal.../dp/082561449X

This one is for the advanced player.

[Steel and wood]

Originally Posted by terrapin

You must run into quite a few tunes where this doesn't work very well? That's where Modes come in.

Modes are just specific types of scales. (Moods of a certain key). I have learnt to play/improvise over just about anything guitar/non guitar in a major/minor key using scale patterns and notes to suit the mood. (Giving it a Jazz, Country, Blues, whatever bent).

[Steel and wood]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

This.

Memorizing scale shapes is not useful. It's like learning complete sentences in a foreign language phonetically. It might get you to a bathroom in a pinch, but that's about it.

Memorizing interval shapes (pairs of notes) and what the interval sounds like is useful because that lets you build any chord or scale. Then, memorize the sequence of intervals in a scale or mode. And voila.

Memorizing scale shapes in the beginning was useful for me. (It allowed me to quickly explore, create and improvise within those shapes and I was able to quickly accompany other guitar players). However, I do agree that the next step is to understand what makes up those shapes, to find other shapes and to mix them up, to understand the relationships between chords and scales and the guitar's fret board, and develop an ear for music.