"Big hole in side"?

[michaelhalliday]

OK, SI I am looking to buy either the 314 or the 414, but I have pretty ,much decided that I do NOT want the pre-amp installed. I am thininking about special ordering a cut-away, but no electronics. ( it turns out at Mars this is MORE that the off the shelf one with the pre-amp.)

I may end up going without the cut-away and saving the money.. I have no business being that far up the neck anyway.

How does everyone else feel about Taylor pre-installing this big piece of plastic in so many guitars? It seems that this is their pre-ferred configuaration, but I think the tone suffers, and they would be better served buy shipping them without, and allowing the buyer to have the system they like installed. Do that many people really insist on having electronics pre-installed? would their sales suffer??

Just some random thoughts....

[david515]

A few months ago I was smitten by the 414 series. The first one I played was a CE, and it played and sounded great. Since I had absolutely no use for the electronics, and didn't much care about the cutaway, I asked about a standard 414. The dealer had two in stock, and I played both of them. Neither sounded as good (to me) as the 414CE. I bought the 414CE.

The bottom line is that these are made of wood, and each is bound to be a little different from the next. It was just the (bad) luck of the draw that the CE I played sounded better than the standard models that were available at the moment, and I wound up paying a little extra for stuff I didn't want.

As to whether the "big hole in side" has a detrimental impact on the sound... beats me. I don't know how my particular guitar would sound without the hole, but it sounded better than two that didn't have it.



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DD

[J.R. Rogers]

I've heard this same argument before, and I personally disagree with it. Almost all of my Taylor guitars have had the preamp in the side, and none of them sounded any better than the ones that I've owned that did not have the preamp in the side.

The best judge is your own ears. If you can hear a difference, buy the guitar without the preamp. If you can't hear the difference, go for the preamp. If there is an audible difference, most people can't hear it, as Taylor's most popular models have the preamps installed.

As far as special order goes, you might want to go to a smaller store that will work with you to order what you want. Taylor will definitely build you any guitar you want sans preamp. Build time is about 90-days and Taylor is usually good about holding to that schedule, from what I hear. In my experience, My 614CE actually arrived in 60 days, while my 655CE was due on august 10th and still isn't here. (It's date has been pushed back to September 26th... Apparently all the good maple is being used on the new Doyle Dykes model... wink, wink )

J.R.

[J.R. Rogers]

....One more thing. Is there really a "hole" there when the preamp door is closed?

[Jon S.]

I'm with you, Michael, but for appearance/vibe reasons, not tone. That's why, when I custom ordered my Taylor Dreadnaught, I went with an Acoustic Matrix Natural I piezo PUP. It's got active electronics (battery mounts on the inside of the guitar via a clip), but no cutting up the side of the axe (all that's needed is to slightly enlarge the hole at the end of the guitar where the strap attaches).

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"I don't want to be making my own vintage reissues. I want to make better guitars today than I did yesterday." Bob Taylor, August 14, 2000.

[Scott Peterson]

I agree it can affect the sound and tone, but I am a big time subscriber to the "every guitar is a thing unto itself" and I tend to judge guitars based on how the particular specific instrument sounds when I actually play it. There are obviously deep simularities between say 4 different 810's - but each will sound and feel slightly different than the others. Go generally just assume that cutaways all sound off or that electonics added make the guitars less tonefull is too simplistic. No flame, just my opinion.

But I also know and understand that deeply interacting with any instrument requires certain things beyond the playability, tone and feel. Gets up in the "headspace" - you MUST be comfortable with what you play. If you don't like electronics, no one here will convince you otherwise - and that is cool.

I do think in this day and age that most players want at least the option of plugging in.

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Scott Peterson

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"Sleeping and eating were never as important to me (as playing the guitar)." Chet Atkins

[michaelhalliday]

All good points....

Thanks for the perpective. I must confess that the "difference in tone" was more a case of my being told that that was the case. My ear can barely tell the difference between a tin can with rubber bands, and teh flashy new Doyle Dykes sig model. (BTW.. saw him play last week...amazing....I need to practive more ;-)

I do agreee with one of the above posts that for me personally, the look doesn't agree with me. I will want elec's eventually but will opt for a less obvious configuration.

Thanks for the discussion... I enjoyed and learned from it.

(BTW...Great forum JR)

[michaelhalliday]

(I also need to spell check more.....sorry)

[david eaton]

I just bought a 514-CE (in March) and I tried to listen to a lot of different opinions and guitars on just this issue. My ears were not able to tell a difference between those with the pre-amp and those without. I also talked to a salesperson that I trust (who is a large Taylor dealer) and he said that he was unable to hear a difference between them.

This makes sense in that the back and sides are not the vibration center of the guitar, the top is. Certainly the back and sides impact the tone (thus the different models with mahogany or maple or rosewood), but I think that impact of the pre-amp, for most people, is negligible.

[Ebin Parker]

None of my Taylors have a hole in the side. I feel that years from now who knows what will be out there for pickups. I do know that if I have a hole now it will be there years from now. Give me a Sunrise pickup and a screwdriver any day and I'll be happy

Ebin

[Purfling]

I ordered a 414C through a dealer on the internet. It was a painless experience and the special order took about 7 weeks.

The guitar sounds great and looks beautiful without the door in the side. (You can see it in the photo gallery)

Dave B

[Philip Holmes]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ebin Parker:
[B]None of my Taylors have a hole in the side. I feel that years from now who knows what will be out there for pickups.

Just my 2 cents worth. I have to heartily agree. My first Taylor was a '94 410e and it was a novelity and a great advancement then to have built in electonics. (plus the bonus of on board EQ)WOW!
Now the electronic amplification has come such a long way - it scares me. I recently saw a guitar (Tak?) that had on board EQ, reverb, chorus, phase shift, with a bank of led's, blah, blah, blah and huge in size. Also the guitar was so thin line, that it was more electric than acoustic.
Two of my present Taylors (814C and 555)are electronically equipped with Fishmans and crown mics, all through a pocket blender. I can unplug and play pure acoustic, or plug in and boogie with the best of them. When I decide to upgrade electronics - no damage to the guitar and when I decide to upgrade guitars, no damage to the electronics.
A Taylor guitar will age and open up beautifully, but your stuck with the onboard electonics.
Oh, a PS - to the person who doesn't want a cutaway 'cause I have no business that high up the neck' - there's a whole new universe of notes up there just waiting to be played -and with a Taylor, it's such a nice, never ending trip.
Philip

I also don't hear the unamplified difference between those with and without other than the variation you hear from one guitar to the next of the same model. And I really like the ease of having those controls right there on the guitar.

As for waiting for technology to progress some more, to me that would be like waiting until computer technology moves aheads enough before taking the plunge and buying a computer. It will always be a moving target and I would rather play now than some day in the future. I have to think that with all of those hundreds of thousands guitars with on-board preamps+pickups out there, there will always be a lucrative market for these makers to keep selling us updated electronics that will just snap right into the old frames. I also imagine that some day in the future, people will want the "vintage" pickup sound from the "good old days" and these things may become even more valuable. Just try buying an original set of pickups from a 1950s Stratocaster or Les Paul.

Jim, peasant number 10

[jsc]

I own a K-14-CE. It was special ordered by the guitar store and delivered as part of a group of Taylors that arrived from the factory. This was easily the best sounding Taylor of the bunch and was A/B'd against other K-14 without the electronics. So I didn't lose any tone in the process. Every guitarist who has played this guitar has commented on the wonderful tone.

As far as the hole in the side and the big black plastic thing, I see it as part of the intstrument and love the convenience of having electronics at my touch. I previously owned a Martin with the thinline running through a pre-amp and hated having to deal with the extra loop that everything had to run through. When I played on stage I was searching for the volume/tone controls that I couldn't see because they were hooked to my belt. I find this much easier. Yes it hurts the asthetics somewhat to have black plastic in the guitar. However this is an instrument and the controls are part of that instrument. I have no regrets. Maybe 20 years from now I will feel differently, maybe the guitar will be worth less than it would have if I had gotten it with no hole or plastic. But it will have paid for itself through usefullness over those twenty years and by then I'll be 70 so who cares.

jsc

[Ebin Parker]

I used to work in a vintage guitar shop. The owner of the shop would not drill a hole in the neck for a strap without first telling the owner of the guitar they may someday wish they had left the guitar untouched.

Yes the guitar is a tool to play music but it is also a thing of beauty. That big black box in filling in a a big hole in a very nice piece of rare wood.

Ebin