"Big hole in side"?

[GRW3]

In the Chris Proctor clinic I attended, he discussed this very topic. As you may know, Chris has routinely played 812 and 912 guitars and he had many of the same feelings about putting the pre-amp in such a good guitar.

Now Chris has a very impressive preamp/amp stack that can handle any tonal demand he has. Even so, he just came to feel that as a working musician he needed the additional control available on the guitar. So he switched to the side preamp. His new signature model also has a side preamp.

Another solution to this is to mount a pre-amp on a mike stand. I saw Chuck Pyle do this recently. (Can't blame him because I wouldn't want to cut holes in the gorgeous Koa Goodal he had either.) It seemed to work well for him but he didn't do a lot of alternate tunings and he didn't change it much.

Chris ended by saying he wouldn't do it to a guitar meant for personal playing but if the guitar is destined for public work he would.

George Wilson

FYI, Chris has an unusual setup. It's an off-shoot of the Fishman Rare Earth Blend. It has the magnetic pickup but instead of the microphone Chris has a sound transducer on the bridge plate. On his signature model the rare earth pickup is mounted on a discreet ebony plate instead of being clamped to the sound board.

[DLHelfand]

I have a 612CE w/o the preamp, and thus no hole. I have always believed that no holes sound better. That is until I played an 800 series with electronics this summer. That guitar sounded every bit as good as mine -- maybe even better. The bottom line is that all guitars are different (even with the same specs,) and you need to try them out individually.

[TheTaylor310]

Howdy Arno,

Well, i do play with a 614c at my church and it is installed with a Fishman Natural I and we run it through the preamp system that we have. The 614c does seem to cut through all the other stuff we plug in, so i think it would be a good idea to install the Natural I, and use that preamp... or anything else that may be better. I personally don't have a preference over the preamp itself——it is all discernible by the person who plays... and that means it's gotta be subjective opinion!

Blessings,
nick

[Chip]

I don't think I could tell any difference in tone...but with the way technology changes, amplification systems will no doubt get smaller and more sophisticated.I think at some point no hole will be needed.

[franchelB]

Though the preamp on the side is convenient, I personally would rather have either an L.R.Baggs Para-Acoustic D.I. or a Fishman Pro-EQ II.

[PaulP]

I have one of those "special" guitars that came without electronics of any kind...it's a custom all koa K-14c and pics are in the photo gallery. Of course I didn't want to cut a big hole in the side of the guitar so I opted for the LR Baggs Double Barrel system. The preamp is on the strap jack and the battery for the mic is attached to the side of the inside with 1/4" double sided tape....all completely nonevasive. The guitar even came from Taylor setup for an imput jack in the strap button hole.

I would highly recommend this route for anyone desiring pickups without cutting...clean and sounds great. You do need some kind of external preamp for volume control, mix, ect. But overall it has been very satisfactory.

I also agree that each guitar is different. After the electronics were installed in my guitar I marched right into the acoustic room and started comparing.....I do feel that mine sounded the best <VBG> but I have heard some others...a 714ce in particular...that I believe is just as good sounding as mine..big hole in the side and all. Hmmmmm....perhaps I need to go listen again....I might have to go buy it just to be completely sure...<VBG>.

[TK]

My gripe with the "hole in the side of the guitar" has more to do with the quality of the electronics. I find very little difference in the ACOUSTIC (unlugged) sound of the C and CE guitars. However - electrically I find that guitars with the simpler Acoustic Matrix Natural I piezo PUP sound superior to the those with the onboard stuff in the side.

I am waiting to hear from Taylor on whether or not I can order one of the new Koa 314s with the Acoustic Matrix Natural.

[PF]

I personally feel that the hole in the side does not justify the loss of the wood for aesthetic purposes.
The tonal change is probably negligable.
For me it is purely visual.
I have owned 4 Taylors in the past 2 years - 510CE, 512, 814CE, 312CE. They were all left-handed. I liked the 512 the most. It did not have hole. Maybe just a coincedence.
I also understand where people who like the look of the control panel feel. Like the cutaway it says "I need this option and I know how to use it."
I believe that eventually the control panel will become so small that it will be a flat thin stick-on that the user can remove and replace as needed.
I presently use a belt clip volume control on my Martin OM-21. It works fine enough. I don't change settings enough to justify the hole.

[JimC]

I just went into my local Guitar Center and Mars Music as I seem to do about once very two weeks or so. Each time I'm so disappointed to see that all the Taylors with few exceptions (x10 size) all have electronics...It seems you have to special order a guitar without a hole in the side...I realize alot of people "plug in" these days but I think Taylor is making a mistake not having some guitars hanging on the walls without holes in the side...Any way you look at it, e guitars are not asthetically pleasing I don't care how "beneficial having on board electronics is. I can understand it with some of the models and that it should be an option...but I think Taylor has it backwards...keep the holes out and make electronics a special order especially with the 700, 800, 900 etc series guitars. I looked at a K14 and really liked it...but then...there it was ...the black hole filled with plastic...just really turned me off. What do the rest of you think?

[joe white]

Hole or no hole, doesn't matter to me either way. If the guitar sounds good, it sounds good, I would rather have the onboard controls but I have heard guitars with no controls sound good live too. My buddy plays a big baby with a flex-mic that goes inside the soundhole, no holes, no screws, and it sounds great.

[houdini]

Since I own only one Taylor, I have nothing to compare with but my Taylor 510ce sounds great with this "hole" in the side that everyone seems to dispice. I just tell my listeners that this is the pickup for the acoustic.

[JimC]

My issue is not with sound but with aesthetics. I doubt if there is any difference in sound. My point is that Taylor is making more and more guitars with on board electronics. I understand it must make good economic sense for them at this time and that they are meeting a demand. Evidently their research says on board electronics are the way to go for now...However, once that hole is there....it stays. When on board electronics improve, become smaller or maybe not even necessary in the future, that hole will still be there. Taylor will then shift to meet the new demand with state of the art technolgy..but those guitars now hanging on the wall at Music Center, Mars and your local guitar shop will still have a big hole in them and it will be like having a big neon sign saying..."Old Style On Board Electronics go here"
It would be kinda like having an old Apple 11c computer...the technology was nice for the time...but you don't see too many now. My feelings are that guitars should be timeless...Why do you think the older 914c and the 912c guitars found on ebay and anywhere else they can be found are so much in demand? Other than the "Cindy" inlay, these guitars are "whole." I realize I'm in the minority, but I think alot of people putting out big bucks for these e guitars will someday wish they hadn't. It's something to think about.....

[JW]

I own more CE Taylors than C only and its not by choice. I think for some the big blender in the side is a neccessity and for me at times its a neccesary evil. If you think it doest hurt the value see what the differance in the price of a 914C Vs a 914CE goes for on ebay. I am one that truly beleives that a great acoustic should be just that ACOUSTIC but the fact remains that so many people have to plug in and so many electric players are going acoustic that this is what sells fast. In the end the guitar that remains valuable and timeless is the pure acoustic. Electronics come and go, technology gets better, first it was the Prefix, then the prefix blender, then the stereo blender and now Taylor is talking there own pickup(hope its not another case fiasco)so while all this changes a great pure acoustic just gets better. Im a beleiver that you can never get the sound from any amp no matter the price that comes from the soundhole on a great acoustic. While electronics are obsolete in two years a pure virgin high quality acoustic will always be great. My 2 cents, JW