A dads observation on learning

[leew3]

I wonder whether the online phenoms lead younger people to believe that unless one can be like them, it's not worth trying. Additionally, the difficulty of guitar is indeed daunting, especially with so many other much easier distractions with which to fill ones time. I sound like an old guy perhaps because I am, and came to guitar over 50 years ago while living in the country with three channels on television.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by leew3

I wonder whether the online phenoms lead younger people to believe that unless one can be like them, it's not worth trying. Additionally, the difficulty of guitar is indeed daunting, especially with so many other much easier distractions with which to fill ones time. I sound like an old guy perhaps because I am, and came to guitar over 50 years ago while living in the country with three channels on television.

yep back in those days, Wholly Mammoths, wooden clubs and guitars were all we had to play with. True story...

[musicman1951]

I was a band director for 44 years and started in middle school, then elementary and finished at the high school. The most successful of those thousands of students were the one's that had the self-motivation to practice. Not "talent" and not IQ, just hard work. I don't think you can give your son that self-motivation.

You are living proof that it's never too late to start. I suspect the only thing you can do is occasionally share your joy of making music - probably better non-verbally most of the time. I had a parent of two of my students start piano lessons as an adult because he witnessed how much joy music gave his kids.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by fazool

does he WANT to play guitar or do YOU want him to play guitar?

This 100%.

[Osage]

Growing up my Mom really wanted me to play the piano. We had an old piano in the house and I took lessons for 5 years. I had zero interest and it showed in how poorly I progressed. I wish she had been more supportive of my interests instead of pushing hers on me.


Neither of my kids has shown any interest in the guitar. Do I think it would be cool if they did? Of course, but they don't so I support their interests. My Daughter's main ones are violin and softball and my Son is a skateboarder. Neither are things I did or do but it's fun to watch them work hard at hard things.

You have guitars at home and have offered to buy your Son a guitar. I think that's all you can do. Let him know that the offer to buy him a guitar stands forever if he ever decides it's something he wants to do.


And for the people saying kids don't want to work hard these days... That's what your parents said and what their parents said and what their parents said etc.... I see kids working extremely hard every day. It just might look a little different than when I was a kid.

[The Bard Rocks]

It's hard to say what will work - if anything - with him. Here's random ideas.

1) Tell him that David Gilmour had to start and put in the hours to get where he is now. Yes, some learn faster and progress further than others. That's true in all aspects of life. But it doesn't mean the rest of us do not have a purpose in life. It takes all of us to make the world go 'round.

2) Ask him for critical help with your playing. Mention you wish you could be shown how to do something you are not getting. Or ask him to explain things that he knows, so you understand them too. Get interested in the music that he relates to so you have that to share.

3) Realize that for many teens the important thing is peer pressure. If friends decided to get a band together, and urged him to join them, maybe that would do the trick. And not that many teens think their parents are cool or do cool things, especially when their buddies are around. They want to be even less like their parents at those times. And it is common at that age to think your folks don't know anything.

4) Have him realize that anyone successful had to start somewhere and put in the hours. (Which relates to #1, above.)

5) Show the joy you get from your music, the things it does for you and hope that he will find something in his life that fills the same spot. That we all need that spot filled.

6) That he wants to be perfect or not do it concerns me. This may be a silver lining, however. If you can uncover it. I am sure David Gilmour finds problems in his own playing and wants to improve. Does your son realize this?

7) Wanting to immediately be good concerns me more. Life gives us few shortcuts When he began to learn about music, did he have to work hard at it and put in the time? I'd search for some success in his own life that demonstrates this. I would not want him failing to try something only because it won't lead to immediate success. He'll never accomplish much in life with that attitude. My father taught me that anything worth doing was worth working for.

8) Maybe you are putting pressure on him, pressure that he senses more than you?

[LFL Steve]

Every kid knows that airplanes are cool. Really cool. My father was an aviator. Airline pilot, flight instructor, GA enthusiast. As a kid I was totally into airplanes and all things aviation and I was very knowledgeable. When I was old enough for flight lessons I had access to an airplane and an excellent instructor, free, but the deal was that I had to come up with the money for fuel. So the whole program was $6/hr “wet” (early’70s). But it just wasn’t me. I ended up spending the money on photography equipment. I’m still a little bit of an aviation buff.

My son also knew that airplanes are really cool. He grew up as a hangar rat in Granddad’s hangar. He loved those days, he loved Granddad, and hanging out with other pilots, and he couldn’t wait to fly! He had an even better opportunity: When he was old enough he would have the whole flight program at no cost. But he was 9 when Granddad died. When he was a teenager we got him flight lessons. He soloed at 14. He took his first FAA check ride wearing Granddad’s heavy leather flight jacket, in July. Today he is an aerospace engineer and test pilot, and he is completing construction of the kit airplane Granddad had started.

When he takes me flying I keep my hands off the stick.

[Acoustic Voyage]

The OP and I are starting under similar circumstances. I'm barely two weeks into my journey and I'm 56 years old. Unfortunately, I believe I have a few other factors that are potential impediments, such as being left handed and having really small hands. Regardless, I'm trying my best and I will see where I end up. My advice it try to make it social with him, play together and create lasting memories.

[Buddy1]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

He talks about chord progressions, riffs, basic theory and other stuff like he has been playing for years.

However, he will not even think about touching any of my guitars. I have been trying to convince him that the younger he starts the better musician he will be.

He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying. Its is very frustrating for me.

-snip-

I just don't get it.

What's to get? Perhaps he just enjoys listening to music and talking about the theory behind it.

If you love eating sushi, does this mean he must love eating sushi too?

I get that you have a passion for guitars (this is a guitarcentric forum after all), but not everyone in the world shares this enjoyment.

Your son will be fine.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by JMW01

Perhaps he needs his own guitar?

Yup. That was one of my thoughts.

Another is that he simply isn't iinterested.

Lee, here's a simple test: If he'd like to go guitar shopping with you to browse around and see if there's something he likes, that might get him interested.

If not, no point pushing. The more you push, the less appealing playing guitar could become. It's not for everyone. Like — being an athlete has never interested me. Far from it! I'm glad my parents didn't push it on me.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Sponserv

I was a very late entrant into the learn to play guitar world. Started at 56 and am now about 10 years into my journey. I would consider myself somewhere between a beginner and "knocking on the door" of being an intermediate player. Admittedly life gets in the way or my progress would be much better.

I have a 16 year old son who took a rock history course and is absolutely more dialed in to the bands of my era than I ever will be. He talks about chord progressions, riffs, basic theory and other stuff like he has been playing for years.

However, he will not even think about touching any of my guitars. I have been trying to convince him that the younger he starts the better musician he will be.

He has this mental block that if he can't be David Gilmour in two weeks then he will not bother even trying. Its is very frustrating for me.

I stink at guitar but for me it is very cathartic and relaxing. When I am playing I only focus on my playing and not anything else that would be bothering me.

Is there anyone else out there dealing with this? I tell him that professional musicians are just that...professionals. We all can't play like Clapton. Or throw footballs like Brady. Or hit golf balls like Tiger. But that doesn't stop most people from playing golf anyway.

I just don't get it.

Hi Sponserv…
Raised 4 boys (along with my wife), and 3 of the four eventually learned to play various music instruments (each playing more than 2 kinds of instruments).

Different speeds, different approaches, different genres…different people.

They are still adding to their musical skills and exploring in their 40s. Not surprisingly two of our grandchildren are great musicians at a young age just by being exposed to (and surrounded by) players.

At the same time 5 of our grandchildren currently show no interest in music instruments. But there is time, and hope…(in my heart).

[dilver]

You don’t have to be an amazing guitar player to be a “professional” but you do need to have talent of some sort. John Lennon wasn’t an amazing guitar player, but was an amazing song writer. Ringo certainly wasn’t an amazing drummer… but Paul McCartney and George Harrison were both great players and songwriters.

As far as your son’s guitar journey, tell him to hang in there. As long as he enjoys it, keep playing. Guitar is hard and the plateaus between “levels of getting better” and long. But it’s not a race. … and no 16 year old wants to hear that.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by b1j

Hi, Joe.

I had a friend in college named Al who idolized Paul McCartney and played bass. He was tortured by his limitations and by the obvious fact that he would never have McCartney’s musicality, fluidity, creativity, spontaneity, or tone. He could not enjoy just playing the lines and having them come out sounding like Al.

Me, I’m a lifelong intermediate. I know music but I don’t read music close to fluidly. I sporadically produce sublime tone inside expressive lines, but I never get through a song without mistakes, or at least without a squeak, missed note, or badly strummed chord.

But I’m OK with that. The minority of the time that I play “well” is enough to put up with all the rest. I play for myself.

Professional musicians make mistakes too. What they learn is that if they don't stop, but instead continue playing few, if any, in the audience will notice. In the studio, there are all manner of editing tools to remove mistakes to make a recording unnaturally perfect and that is the music we hear as consumers.

If we can accept that mistakes will be made, while at the same time continuing to strive to improve, the journey will be much more relaxed and pleasing.

Tony

[Bob from Brooklyn]

Sometimes kids need to hear things from someone other than a parent. Ask me how I know.

[zuzu]

My concern is alike but maybe more concerning. My two oldest grandchildren, ages 13 and 15, won't stick with anything that takes any effort much at all. They have "helicopter parents" who have hovered over their every step since birth, making everything ok if the little darlings were in any way stressed. Now those parents expect them to become motivated, productive, and capable of pursuing their interests with commitment. I fear that ship has sailed. They moved far away about 10 years ago, so I only see them a few times a year now and am not the help I could perhaps be.

I warned my son about this when they were toddlers, and he surely knows he wasn't raised that way. But his wife, whom I love as my own, is from a highly emotionally abusive home and has been determined to not have that kind of negativity in her family. I admire her a lot for shaking off the crazy that was her upbringing, but am afraid she has, perhaps, traded one form of abuse for another. There is a ditch on both sides of the road.

And just from simple observation, as I am involved in the lives of all of my local grandchildren and exposed to many of their peers and parents, I know this is an all too common problem.

Bottom line: If the lad is not motivated toward guitar, let him be motivated toward something positive, it probably doesn't matter much what it is. But, find a way to instill in his understanding the equation, motivation+effort=results. Too many are not getting that lesson or an example of it.