Does a guitar´s tone and sound improve with age?

[rov]

Is this true?. I am planning to buy a Martin 00028 EC so an old one will sound better than a new one?

[LAPlayer]

It's not guaranteed but most guitars get better with age and play. That doesn't mean an older 000-28 will sound better than a new one. Too many factors enter into it.

[jim1960]

Maybe is the only answer. Not every vintage guitar will sound better than it's newer counterpart.

[egordon99]

Some recent threads on this subject:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=673980

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=673819

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=672162

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=672163

[Glennwillow]

I seem to be in the minority here on the AGF, but I believe a guitar sounds its best during it's first few years. After a number of years, maybe 20-30 or so, the guitar tends to lose bass and emphasize the treble frequencies.

I have had most of my guitars that long or longer and that is what has happened to each one of them. In some cases, the aging has helped because the guitar had too much bass to begin with. So a loss of bass tends to clear up the guitar's tone in a couple of cases.

But in general, I liked my guitars better when they were less old.

- Glenn

[Seb_274]

Originally Posted by rov

Is this true?. I am planning to buy a Martin 00028 EC so an old one will sound better than a new one?

I was under the impression that with today's technology manufacturer's were able to "age" the wood.
BTW, I find the Martin 00028EC to be aesthetically a beautiful guitar

[colins]

Originally Posted by Seb_274

I was under the impression that with today's technology manufacturer's were able to "age" the wood.
BTW, I find the Martin 00028EC to be aesthetically a beautiful guitar

One such “artificial aging” process is torrefaction, but it is only used by a minority of builders, with most guitar tops still built using wood that has not been artificially aged. If you are interested, there are threads about it here that you can search for.

To me the best thing about buying an older guitar is that you are buying at used pricing rather than new pricing! I bought a Martin EC many years ago from Gryphon and got a nice guitar at a nice price.

[Br1ck]

If a guitar gets played, my personal opinion is that it will change some in the first year, and that differs guitar to guitar. The next milestone is 20 years, then thirty or so. 50 years is another milestone. Total gut feeling. I don't like Collings guitars. I find them too bright, but I've played a few that have had thirty years on them that were outstanding. I know of no scientific study proving anything. My 65 Texan and 70 Guild D 35 have a certain tone I believe is age, but would not bet a dime on it. It is pretty much a seat of the pants consensus among those with a boatload of experience that old guitars are special. As one well known luthier told me, buy a guitar for what it sounds like right now as there are no guarantees it will ever improve.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by rov

Is this true?. I am planning to buy a Martin 00028 EC so an old one will sound better than a new one?

First, great guitar choice!

Now to answer your question... what does 'sound better' actually mean? If you can't answer that, then there is no way I can tell you if an older one will 'sound better' than a new one.

(full disclosure: Even if you tell me what 'sound better' means I still can't tell you if an older one will 'sound better')

Truth is, everything changes. Wood changes. Environmental conditions change. Room acoustics change. Even your hearing changes! You shouldn't buy a guitar with the idea that it will sound better at some point in the future. Buy what sounds good today. That's about the best you can do.

[Wade Hampton]

In my experience, in general acoustic guitars do improve with age and use. That said, all acoustic instruments are individuals, so an older example of a 000-28EC won’t necessarily sound better than a new one.


whm

[mtdmind]

I think it may change some, but a mediocre sounding guitar will not improve to be great sounding.

[Russ C]

Timber changes with age (you can read a lot about that) and most people prefer the sonic changes that come with it.
Builders often change their specs and techniques with time also and that can easily have a greater effect.
Once again the old rule - you can’t know unless you play them side by side, same day, same environment, same pick, new strings, no expectations either way etc etc.
But yes, barring other changes older guitars tend to sound better.

[Alan Carruth]

Glennwillow wrote:
"After a number of years, maybe 20-30 or so, the guitar tends to lose bass and emphasize the treble frequencies."

The measurements I've made suggest that, at least in the first few years, it's the bass that tends to get stronger. I have not had the chance to test the same guitar in the same setup over as long a period as 20 years.

At any rate, all of the builders I know agree that the sound changes over time, more rapidly at first, and then less so. Whether the change is always an 'improvement' is hard to say. It's not uncommon for new guitars to have a 'tight' sound with somewhat restricted trebles, and 'playing in' tends to loosen them up. In that case, it's helpful. Sometimes you'll get a new guitar that has a 'bassy' sound, and these can tend toward 'tubby' as they break in, so it's not always an improvement.

Artificial aging of the wood is usually meant to stabilize it. As time goes by the hemicellulose 'filler' in the lignin 'glue' that holds the wood together breaks down. Since hemicellulose is the part of the wood that absorbs moisture from the air it is less able to do so as it ages. It shrinks and swells less with changes in humidity. Torrefaction, and other processes, such as 'stewing' the wood, are meant to break down the hemicellulose more rapidly. All the Torrified wood I've seen has been much more prone to splitting than new wood that has not been treated, and maybe even more so than naturally aged wood. I also wonder if the Torrified wood will continue in the natural course of aging. We'll find out in forty or fifty years.

At least one old 'aging' technique may have proven to be a bad idea in the long run. A hundred or so years ago some violin makers used a 'spark box' to produce ozone, which was said to 'age' the wood. Apparently many of those instruments are now crumbling away, possibly due to the nitrates that are also produced by the spark.

As far as I can see, the best plan is to make an instrument that sounds good off the bench, with a bit of room to 'loosen up' as it ages. Again, we'll find out in 75 years or so whether this is a good idea.

[rllink]

Not from personal experience, but from reading at least two dozen threads on this subject, a guitar will almost always with almost no exceptions sound better over time, especially if it is played. You can however do all kinds of mumbo jumbo to circumvent the process, like setting it on a stand in front of a speaker and playing your favorite genre of music directly into the guitar itself to be later released, or buy any number of gizmos that can be attached to the guitar that massage it in ways to bring out the best your guitar can sound regardless of your favorite genre of music.

As far as buying an older guitar to take advantage of this process of playing enhancement, if by chance the guitar is not maintained in some kind of played or massaged state, if it has not been regularly stimulated in any of the above ways, it will go into what is known as a state of sleep and quickly start to revert to its original unplayed state. It will have to be woken up again by regular playing or artificial stimulation. So buying an older used guitar does not guarantee a fine sounding guitar.

This has all been the subject of a number of scientific study by experts here and elsewhere, and anecdotal observations from people who have played a multitude of guitars for decades in a professional setting, just exactly how much playing or artificial stimulation is required has yet to be determined, as it is still being argued if there really is any correlation or not.

[Moldstar]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I seem to be in the minority here on the AGF, but I believe a guitar sounds its best during it's first few years. After a number of years, maybe 20-30 or so, the guitar tends to lose bass and emphasize the treble frequencies.

I have had most of my guitars that long or longer and that is what has happened to each one of them. In some cases, the aging has helped because the guitar had too much bass to begin with. So a loss of bass tends to clear up the guitar's tone in a couple of cases.

But in general, I liked my guitars better when they were less old.

- Glenn

I find this true as well.