I don't know if the guitar "opens-up" as much as the player does...

Acousticado · #1 07-02-2003, 11:09 PM

I was sitting here tonight playing my 814c that I've had for about a year, and although I am well aware of the improved tonal qualities over my old Ibanez beater, with all this talk of a guitar "opening-up", it suddenly hit me that I don't know if the guitar "opens-up" as much as the player does. My Taylor seems even more dynamic now. I mean, all of a sudden I REALLY heard my guitar -- seems like for the first time. Sure, it's partially the guitar opening-up, but even more, I think I'm only now starting to really learn how to handle a quality acoustic instrument and harness the enhanced range that it affords.

Just broke down another wall...

Does anyone else see it this way?

Bluepoet · #2 07-03-2003, 03:10 AM

I hadn't thought of it that way, but, now that you mention it, pretty much all my guitars "opened up" as I got to know them--even the old beaters...hmmm, you might have something there...although, I still think that it's a matter of degree...I mean, I heard so much more when I first picked up my Taylor (first solid top, for me..). And, I think that I'm getting much better as a player because there's so much more dynamic range in this guitar--makes me experiment with accenting my strums and plucking separate strings out of the mix more...like you said. On the other hand, sometimes I tend to lose control and play louder than the song calls for, because I get lost in listening to the harmonics...my wife will ask me if I'm a broken record, because I will come to a really wonderful sounding groove, and just keep repeating it!!

Splatt · #3 07-03-2003, 03:56 AM

I think it's a bit of both... You probably wouldnt actually notice the guitar opening up as it's so gradual unless you picked up a new guitar to compare it against... I'm sure after about a years playing there would be a difference in the tone of the guitar though!

muzz76 · #4 07-03-2003, 04:01 AM

I've grappled with this concept for a while. I think much has to do with maturing and increasing one's skills as a player, and bonding and becoming one with that particular instrument.

What I can't really explain is that open and full, powerful sound many vintage guitars are capable of, or, that low E that suddenly seems to become a force to be reckoned with.

I'm still a bit skeptic but barely holding on.

Restless · #5 07-03-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by muzz76
I've grappled with this concept for a while. I think much has to do with maturing and increasing one's skills as a player, and bonding and becoming one with that particular instrument.

What I can't really explain is that open and full, powerful sound many vintage guitars are capable of, or, that low E that suddenly seems to become a force to be reckoned with.

I'm still a bit skeptic but barely holding on.

The low E and A have changed a bunch in my 314ce over the past year. (manufactured April 2002.)

But then I have become a better player as well, going from strumming to fingerstyle in a big way... so I don't know...

GSnyde · #6 07-03-2003, 04:28 PM

Very interesting point. There is no doubt that, as a player gets used to the sound and feel of a particular guitar, the player gets better at making the best sounds come out of that guitar. But, if you've played a number of young guitars as they open up, you can definitely tell that the tone of a guitar is becoming clearer and richer, apart from the players' playing.

Like so many other things, it's complicated.

Acousticado · #7 07-03-2003, 05:52 PM

My Taylor is the first "quality" acoustic I've owned. Maybe that's why I hadn't noticed this before, whereas perhaps many of you already have experienced this. Although I used to play around with volume (non-amped, playing loud, playing soft), when playing my Ibanez, the range of my Taylor is so much greater (no duh!) than I'd experienced before. I really do feel that I'm opening-up to the range of the instrument, and as it opens-up also, I'm learning to play with even greater 'polish'. Kewl!

JimC · #8 07-03-2003, 08:20 PM

We have discussed this topic before...While I know that guitars improve with age...I think it takes ALOT of age and playing...some people say they hear a difference in 2 or 3 months etc. I doubt it...they are , as you say, "opening up" to the guitar more than anything..... I have a 30 year old brazlian and yes, it sounds different than the day I bought it brand new....but it took awhile. My new HD28v that is less than a year old sounds different, but I think it's more me than the guitar...now in 30 years...it should be a monster....just in time for my son to take it over!

muzz76 · #9 07-03-2003, 08:59 PM

Regarding the opening up phenomenon. The changes I find readily apparent are within the first 5-10hrs of a guitar's life. Being a lefthanded player, i've been the first hands to play all of my guitars and probably more than a few i've encountered in shops.

My OOO had a nice tone the first time I played it but it didn't knock my socks off like it started to after a few days. It had literally been strung up for the first time a few hours before I picked it up and it felt a little tight. In the first few days it started to develop its voice which it still has today but a little louder, a little more responsive.

My guess would be guitars reach much of their potential quickly making a well built guitar good quite quickly. The rest comes over a very long period of time and is harder to measure.

wthurman · #10 07-04-2003, 05:13 AM

I find that guitars shift back and forth durning the first couple of years, which I would attribute mostly to playing.

I have to tell you... a brother of mine, who is a very aggressive fingerstylist on any guitar he plays, played my 914C two years after having played it once before, when I'd owned it six months.

He could not believe the difference in sound. Fuller, richer, keeping the bell-like qualities it originally had, but opening up in the bass and becoming much more versatile. He has not bought a new acoustic guitar in longer than I've owned that, and his playing has not improved particularly, even in subtle ways, other than adding to his repertoire.

Both times playing ended up being several hours long. and the sound didn't "change" during that time.

I have all the proof I need that guitars open up regardless of the player. Now, to really become sweet and amazing takes many years, but the first five years are pretty amazng in the life of any child, including a newborn guitar.

TaylorFishin' · #11 07-04-2003, 08:38 AM

The great "Opening up" debate. I have stated my thoughts on this before and will post them here as well.
Guitars opening up --- PPHHHTTTTT Bull Corn. I'll never buy into that theory or that guitars sound good one day and bad the next.
Oh yea, and the one about people can tell the difference in sound between Sitka and Engelmann --- Whew!! Reach me the kryptonite.

From a previous post-

I also think that 95% of the great "opening up" of a guitar is also your ears. Sure, it may change in tone very slightly over the years, but it is very gradual. I think your ears get more acustomed to the sound of the guitar you are playing every day and it begins to sound better to you.
If I don't like the sound of a new guitar the first time I play it, I sure won't buy it hoping it will open up and sound better later.
I just don't think the sound changes much.

Scott

larrymac · #12 07-04-2003, 09:21 AM

With all due respect to everybody's personal opinions here in TGF, the change in a wooden acoustic instrument's tonal characteristics over a period of time is a scientific fact. The wood ages, the glue and finish go through certain chemical changes, all of which combine to affect the instrument's reaction to vibration and harmonics.

Compare a pre-war Martin to a new model fresh from the factory. People pay stellar prices for those older models due to the sound they produce. And what about Strativarius (excuse the spelling, please) violins? Some of those violins have sounds unlike any other, contributed to in a certain degree to the age of the instrument. And he made a few guitars, also, that are setting in a museum in South Dakota.

While the phrase "Opening Up" is most likely used in too many instances, it does describe the condition that a new all-solid wood guitar will, in fact, transition through a variety of tonal changes over time.

And if you think not, then let your Taylor (or any other brand) sit with old, corroded strings, in a total dry environment for many months. When played it will sound poor, muddy and compressed.

Sorry for the length of this post, but any luthier will confirm what I have written. No offense intended to any of the prior members and their posts.

areed · #13 07-04-2003, 09:25 AM

Well said. A great instrument brings out the best in the artist, who in turn brings out the best in the instrument.

The taylor guitars have a tonal quality that seems to grow and mature as the player does.

Acousticado · #14 07-04-2003, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TaylorFishin'
The great "Opening up" debate. I have stated my thoughts on this before and will post them here as well.
Guitars opening up --- PPHHHTTTTT Bull Corn. I'll never buy into that theory or that guitars sound good one day and bad the next.
Oh yea, and the one about people can tell the difference in sound between Sitka and Engelmann --- Whew!! Reach me the kryptonite.

From a previous post-

I also think that 95% of the great "opening up" of a guitar is also your ears. Sure, it may change in tone very slightly over the years, but it is very gradual. I think your ears get more acustomed to the sound of the guitar you are playing every day and it begins to sound better to you.
If I don't like the sound of a new guitar the first time I play it, I sure won't buy it hoping it will open up and sound better later.
I just don't think the sound changes much.

Scott

Ok Scott, but "opening-up" of the guitar and one's "ear" to hear it (or different woods) really isn't the point of this thread. I'm talking more about learning to play with "polish" when provided with the vastly increased tonal range offered by a quality acoustic guitar compared to one of lesser quality (when that's all you've played). Sure, some of it is improved technical ability as one progresses, but I really think the increased range offers that added dimension to which I refer. If in fact the guitar does open-up over time (and I tend to think it does), then this will only add to the effect.

But then again, maybe it was the wine

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